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From: Artemus on 15 Jul 2010 16:56

"Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:8a93gbFfidU1(a)mid.individual.net...
> Hey guys,
>
> Thinking about installing a smaller unit, no chance to pipe in a big one
> because of the way the house is built. The instructions that come with
> units like this are paltry:
>
>
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&productId=100143013&navFlow=3&keyword=WCM28&langId=-1&searchRedirect=WCM28&storeId=10051&endecaDataBean=com.homedepot.sa.el.wc.integration.endeca.EndecaDataBean%40537e385a&ddkey=Search
>
> Essentially just "hang it up, affix plumbing, turn on". Great. Our HW
> stores can only order them, you can't look at a unit. I want to place it
> on a deck and cut a hole into the wall. Questions:
>
> Can they sit on a wooden deck or _must_ they be hung?
>
> How far does the drain and overflow stuff stick out the bottom? They
> don't say, but I assume the unit must be raised for that and depending
> on how far I could either use or not use such a unit.
>
> How are they powered? Power cord inside or on the outside part?
> Amazingly not one word about that in the installation guide. I thought
> this is kind of important ...
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
> Use another domain or send PM.

My comments are based on living with swamp coolers in Arizona
for 40+ years.

Yes it can sit on a deck, or concrete blocks, a wood or metal frame,
etc. It is not necessary to provide 100% support under it, a frame of
2x4's around the outside edge of the base is adequate.

The drain fitting sticks out the bottom less than 1" and is threaded for
a garden hose. When installed the garden hose will stick straight down.
You can install an elbow for tight installations. The overflow is entirely
inside the cooler box. No drain shutoff is necessary. PVC pipe is ok
for the drain line.

Installing a bleed off kit will extend the life of your pads and greatly
reduce the calcium build up the metal parts.
http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-47672/Detail

The unit you linked to will have 1 external electric cord with a standard
plug. All other wiring will be factory installed inside the unit.

For winterizing: unplug the electrical, drain the water and wrap it with
a tarp. If you have freezing temperatures you will need to purge the
feed water tubing too. Insulation is usually done by covering the inside
part with a cover of ones own making.
Art


From: Joerg on 15 Jul 2010 17:10
Artemus wrote:
> "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:8a93gbFfidU1(a)mid.individual.net...
>> Hey guys,
>>
>> Thinking about installing a smaller unit, no chance to pipe in a big one
>> because of the way the house is built. The instructions that come with
>> units like this are paltry:
>>
>>
> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&productId=100143013&navFlow=3&keyword=WCM28&langId=-1&searchRedirect=WCM28&storeId=10051&endecaDataBean=com.homedepot.sa.el.wc.integration.endeca.EndecaDataBean%40537e385a&ddkey=Search
>> Essentially just "hang it up, affix plumbing, turn on". Great. Our HW
>> stores can only order them, you can't look at a unit. I want to place it
>> on a deck and cut a hole into the wall. Questions:
>>
>> Can they sit on a wooden deck or _must_ they be hung?
>>
>> How far does the drain and overflow stuff stick out the bottom? They
>> don't say, but I assume the unit must be raised for that and depending
>> on how far I could either use or not use such a unit.
>>
>> How are they powered? Power cord inside or on the outside part?
>> Amazingly not one word about that in the installation guide. I thought
>> this is kind of important ...
>>
>> --
>> Regards, Joerg
>>
>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>>
>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
>> Use another domain or send PM.
>
> My comments are based on living with swamp coolers in Arizona
> for 40+ years.
>
> Yes it can sit on a deck, or concrete blocks, a wood or metal frame,
> etc. It is not necessary to provide 100% support under it, a frame of
> 2x4's around the outside edge of the base is adequate.
>

Good, thanks!


> The drain fitting sticks out the bottom less than 1" and is threaded for
> a garden hose. When installed the garden hose will stick straight down.
> You can install an elbow for tight installations. The overflow is entirely
> inside the cooler box. No drain shutoff is necessary. PVC pipe is ok
> for the drain line.
>

Technically the overflow should never come on anyhow so if that oozes
it's probably ok.


> Installing a bleed off kit will extend the life of your pads and greatly
> reduce the calcium build up the metal parts.
> http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-47672/Detail
>

I think they should be bled weekly to avoid that "indoor swimming pool"
smell. Maybe I just use the drain for that.


> The unit you linked to will have 1 external electric cord with a standard
> plug. All other wiring will be factory installed inside the unit.
>

Darn. There ain't no outlet on the outside, and not easy to run power there.


> For winterizing: unplug the electrical, drain the water and wrap it with
> a tarp. If you have freezing temperatures you will need to purge the
> feed water tubing too. Insulation is usually done by covering the inside
> part with a cover of ones own making.


That part will require some custom fitting anyhow. Seems they made the
tunnel one piece, with flanges. That's unfortunate because I'll have to
make the hole larger than it needs to be. Meaning a frame on both sides
and then the inner one can hold a homemade wood cover with an acceptable
WAF. Stained to match furniture, maybe.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
From: Artemus on 15 Jul 2010 17:31

"Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:8a9bpoF5s3U1(a)mid.individual.net...
> Artemus wrote:
> > "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:8a93gbFfidU1(a)mid.individual.net...
> >> Hey guys,
> >>
> >> Thinking about installing a smaller unit, no chance to pipe in a big one
> >> because of the way the house is built. The instructions that come with
> >> units like this are paltry:
> >>
> >>
> >
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&productId=100143013&navFlow=3&keyword=WCM28&langId=-1&searchRedirect=WCM28&storeId=10051&endecaDataBean=com.homedepot.sa.el.wc.integration.endeca.EndecaDataBean%40537e385a&ddkey=Search
> >> Essentially just "hang it up, affix plumbing, turn on". Great. Our HW
> >> stores can only order them, you can't look at a unit. I want to place it
> >> on a deck and cut a hole into the wall. Questions:
> >>
> >> Can they sit on a wooden deck or _must_ they be hung?
> >>
> >> How far does the drain and overflow stuff stick out the bottom? They
> >> don't say, but I assume the unit must be raised for that and depending
> >> on how far I could either use or not use such a unit.
> >>
> >> How are they powered? Power cord inside or on the outside part?
> >> Amazingly not one word about that in the installation guide. I thought
> >> this is kind of important ...
> >>
> >> --
> >> Regards, Joerg
> >>
> >> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
> >>
> >> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
> >> Use another domain or send PM.
> >
> > My comments are based on living with swamp coolers in Arizona
> > for 40+ years.
> >
> > Yes it can sit on a deck, or concrete blocks, a wood or metal frame,
> > etc. It is not necessary to provide 100% support under it, a frame of
> > 2x4's around the outside edge of the base is adequate.
> >
>
> Good, thanks!
>
>
> > The drain fitting sticks out the bottom less than 1" and is threaded for
> > a garden hose. When installed the garden hose will stick straight down.
> > You can install an elbow for tight installations. The overflow is entirely
> > inside the cooler box. No drain shutoff is necessary. PVC pipe is ok
> > for the drain line.
> >
>
> Technically the overflow should never come on anyhow so if that oozes
> it's probably ok.

The overflow is nothing more than a thinwalled PVC tube about 3-4" long
stuck in the drain fitting on the inside of the unit. If the water level gets
higher than the end of the tube it simply drains out. No moving parts.
Remove the tube to drain all the water out.

>
> > Installing a bleed off kit will extend the life of your pads and greatly
> > reduce the calcium build up the metal parts.
> > http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-47672/Detail
> >
>
> I think they should be bled weekly to avoid that "indoor swimming pool"
> smell. Maybe I just use the drain for that.

Draining will not help that.
The swamp smell is due to algae growth on the pads. New pads are
treated to prevent this but the treatment doesn't last forever. Growth
usually only happens with round the clock operation in higher outside
humidity. This allows algae to grow on the pads. In low humidity, low
teens and less, I've never seen algae growth. Turning the unit off and
allowing the pads to completly dry once a day will also inhibit algae
growth.

BTW. The aspen fiber pads are the best IMHO. They smell
wonderful for the first couple of days and provide the best temperature
drop. Paper ones are a so-so second choice. Plastic ones suck.

>
>
> > The unit you linked to will have 1 external electric cord with a standard
> > plug. All other wiring will be factory installed inside the unit.
> >
>
> Darn. There ain't no outlet on the outside, and not easy to run power there.

No problem. Pull the cord back inside the unit, drill a hole in the sheet
metal duct next to the outside edge of the box, install a grommet, and run
the cord through. The cord can them be run out the louvers inside the
house, or through another hole drilled in the side/bottom of the duct.

>
>
> > For winterizing: unplug the electrical, drain the water and wrap it with
> > a tarp. If you have freezing temperatures you will need to purge the
> > feed water tubing too. Insulation is usually done by covering the inside
> > part with a cover of ones own making.
>
>
> That part will require some custom fitting anyhow. Seems they made the
> tunnel one piece, with flanges. That's unfortunate because I'll have to
> make the hole larger than it needs to be. Meaning a frame on both sides
> and then the inner one can hold a homemade wood cover with an acceptable
> WAF. Stained to match furniture, maybe.
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
> Use another domain or send PM.


From: Joerg on 15 Jul 2010 17:53
Artemus wrote:
> "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:8a9bpoF5s3U1(a)mid.individual.net...
>> Artemus wrote:
>>> "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:8a93gbFfidU1(a)mid.individual.net...
>>>> Hey guys,
>>>>
>>>> Thinking about installing a smaller unit, no chance to pipe in a big one
>>>> because of the way the house is built. The instructions that come with
>>>> units like this are paltry:
>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&productId=100143013&navFlow=3&keyword=WCM28&langId=-1&searchRedirect=WCM28&storeId=10051&endecaDataBean=com.homedepot.sa.el.wc.integration.endeca.EndecaDataBean%40537e385a&ddkey=Search
>>>> Essentially just "hang it up, affix plumbing, turn on". Great. Our HW
>>>> stores can only order them, you can't look at a unit. I want to place it
>>>> on a deck and cut a hole into the wall. Questions:
>>>>
>>>> Can they sit on a wooden deck or _must_ they be hung?
>>>>
>>>> How far does the drain and overflow stuff stick out the bottom? They
>>>> don't say, but I assume the unit must be raised for that and depending
>>>> on how far I could either use or not use such a unit.
>>>>
>>>> How are they powered? Power cord inside or on the outside part?
>>>> Amazingly not one word about that in the installation guide. I thought
>>>> this is kind of important ...
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Regards, Joerg
>>>>
>>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>>>>
>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
>>>> Use another domain or send PM.
>>> My comments are based on living with swamp coolers in Arizona
>>> for 40+ years.
>>>
>>> Yes it can sit on a deck, or concrete blocks, a wood or metal frame,
>>> etc. It is not necessary to provide 100% support under it, a frame of
>>> 2x4's around the outside edge of the base is adequate.
>>>
>> Good, thanks!
>>
>>
>>> The drain fitting sticks out the bottom less than 1" and is threaded for
>>> a garden hose. When installed the garden hose will stick straight down.
>>> You can install an elbow for tight installations. The overflow is entirely
>>> inside the cooler box. No drain shutoff is necessary. PVC pipe is ok
>>> for the drain line.
>>>
>> Technically the overflow should never come on anyhow so if that oozes
>> it's probably ok.
>
> The overflow is nothing more than a thinwalled PVC tube about 3-4" long
> stuck in the drain fitting on the inside of the unit. If the water level gets
> higher than the end of the tube it simply drains out. No moving parts.
> Remove the tube to drain all the water out.
>

So you have to take a panel off every week? I think I am going to modify
that :-)


>>> Installing a bleed off kit will extend the life of your pads and greatly
>>> reduce the calcium build up the metal parts.
>>> http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-47672/Detail
>>>
>> I think they should be bled weekly to avoid that "indoor swimming pool"
>> smell. Maybe I just use the drain for that.
>
> Draining will not help that.
> The swamp smell is due to algae growth on the pads. New pads are
> treated to prevent this but the treatment doesn't last forever. Growth
> usually only happens with round the clock operation in higher outside
> humidity. This allows algae to grow on the pads. In low humidity, low
> teens and less, I've never seen algae growth. Turning the unit off and
> allowing the pads to completly dry once a day will also inhibit algae
> growth.
>

Right now the humidity is 25%, temperature is around 100F. At night we
sometimes have high humidity rolling in from the coast. It's 100 miles
away but one never knows on which days this delta breeze will roll in.


> BTW. The aspen fiber pads are the best IMHO. They smell
> wonderful for the first couple of days and provide the best temperature
> drop. Paper ones are a so-so second choice. Plastic ones suck.
>

Yes, that's what I heard and read. Many Australians seem to prefer the
cardboard kind for some reason.


>>
>>> The unit you linked to will have 1 external electric cord with a standard
>>> plug. All other wiring will be factory installed inside the unit.
>>>
>> Darn. There ain't no outlet on the outside, and not easy to run power there.
>
> No problem. Pull the cord back inside the unit, drill a hole in the sheet
> metal duct next to the outside edge of the box, install a grommet, and run
> the cord through. The cord can them be run out the louvers inside the
> house, or through another hole drilled in the side/bottom of the duct.
>

Well, if that's legal and would pass a home inspection some day it
should be no problem.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
From: Artemus on 15 Jul 2010 18:46

"Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:8a9eadFk8sU1(a)mid.individual.net...
> >
>
> So you have to take a panel off every week? I think I am going to modify
> that :-)

There's really no need to 100% drain it on a weekly basis. But yes, you
will have to pull a panel to drain it. Pulling a panel is simple as it is held in
by gravity and all you have to do is lift it up and out. Just don't plug or put
a shut off in the drain line or the cooler pan will overflow in the event of a
stuck float valve.

>
>
> Right now the humidity is 25%, temperature is around 100F. At night we
> sometimes have high humidity rolling in from the coast. It's 100 miles
> away but one never knows on which days this delta breeze will roll in.
>

I have a chart somewhere showing the temp differential a swamp box
can deliver depending on the outside air temp & humidity but I can't find
it right now. When I find it I'll post it.

>
> > BTW. The aspen fiber pads are the best IMHO. They smell
> > wonderful for the first couple of days and provide the best temperature
> > drop. Paper ones are a so-so second choice. Plastic ones suck.
> >
>
> Yes, that's what I heard and read. Many Australians seem to prefer the
> cardboard kind for some reason.
>

Unavailability of aspen ones down under?

It would be good idea to have spare pads on hand for a mid season change.
In AZ they were plentiful and cheap in April-May but rare and cost more
later on.

Art


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