Synergy Batteries -- Can anyone comment?
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From: SMS on 6 Jul 2010 09:46 On 06/07/10 3:53 AM, Robert Spanjaard wrote: <snip> > Oh, and Mignon is not a brand name. > It's just another name for "AA battery". I prefer to call the rechargeable AA's HR6 and the non-rechargeable AA's LR6. Mignon (which is the French term for an AA battery) is too vague. While there are rechargeable Li-Po and Li-Ion cells that are the physical size of an R6 cell, (14500), the chemistry yields 3.6-3.7 volts. There are some devices that can use them because they have a DC-DC converter with a very wide input range, but I've never known a digital camera that could use them. Even "regular" AA batteries vary significantly based on chemistry, from 1.2V to 1.7V, so there has to be some accommodation built in. There's no real advantage in terms of WH capacity of the 14500 Li-Ion and Li-Po cells (versus NiMH), and when sold as an end-user product each cell needs it's own protection circuitry built in (as opposed to one set of protection circuitry for a multi-cell Li-Ion/Li-Po battery pack). You do get the advantage of the low-temperature performance. Of course you need a charger that's capable of charging them as well, since a NiMH charger won't work. The issue is rather moot these days as so few cameras still use AA batteries, only the very low end P&S models and a few super-zoom P&S models. You can use AA batteries in a lot of D-SLR battery grips, but the performance of Li-Ion batteries is so much better that you'd rarely do such a thing. Even the "ITMONW" rationalization is rather moot because when you come across that 7-11 in the middle of nowhere and buy R6 manganese batteries, they work poorly in digital cameras because of their high internal resistance. I suppose someone could make a 14500 lithium based cell than had an internal buck-boost converter/charger so it could have a 1.5V output and be chargeable in a NiMH charger, but that would be a pretty ridiculous project.
From: Mike S. on 6 Jul 2010 10:37 In article <4c33338e$0$22122$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net>, SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote: >On 06/07/10 3:53 AM, Robert Spanjaard wrote: > ><snip> > >> Oh, and Mignon is not a brand name. >> It's just another name for "AA battery". > >I prefer to call the rechargeable AA's HR6 and the non-rechargeable AA's >LR6. Mignon (which is the French term for an AA battery) is too vague. > >While there are rechargeable Li-Po and Li-Ion cells that are the >physical size of an R6 cell, (14500), the chemistry yields 3.6-3.7 >volts. There are some devices that can use them because they have a >DC-DC converter with a very wide input range, but I've never known a >digital camera that could use them. Even "regular" AA batteries vary >significantly based on chemistry, from 1.2V to 1.7V, so there has to be >some accommodation built in. > >There's no real advantage in terms of WH capacity of the 14500 Li-Ion >and Li-Po cells (versus NiMH), and when sold as an end-user product each >cell needs it's own protection circuitry built in (as opposed to one set >of protection circuitry for a multi-cell Li-Ion/Li-Po battery pack). You >do get the advantage of the low-temperature performance. Of course you >need a charger that's capable of charging them as well, since a NiMH >charger won't work. > >The issue is rather moot these days as so few cameras still use AA >batteries, only the very low end P&S models and a few super-zoom P&S >models. You can use AA batteries in a lot of D-SLR battery grips, but >the performance of Li-Ion batteries is so much better that you'd rarely >do such a thing. Even the "ITMONW" rationalization is rather moot >because when you come across that 7-11 in the middle of nowhere and buy >R6 manganese batteries, they work poorly in digital cameras because of >their high internal resistance. > >I suppose someone could make a 14500 lithium based cell than had an >internal buck-boost converter/charger so it could have a 1.5V output and >be chargeable in a NiMH charger, but that would be a pretty ridiculous >project. My interest in this type of product is for electronic flash. For instance, the external flash for my Olympus uses two AA cells. It also takes CR-V3 primary packs, which deliver much better performance. Unfortunately the RCR-V3 (which is basically two 14500's in parallel with special circuit to make it look like two AA's in series) are disappointing. Not only do reviewers say they last no longer than NiMH, but they can't deliver the current necessary to charge a flash and end up dying after the first shot. I was hopnig the product described here might be better, but it seems they are not what they were described as being.
From: SMS on 6 Jul 2010 11:12 On 06/07/10 7:37 AM, Mike S. wrote: <snip> > My interest in this type of product is for electronic flash. For instance, > the external flash for my Olympus uses two AA cells. It also takes CR-V3 > primary packs, which deliver much better performance. Unfortunately the > RCR-V3 (which is basically two 14500's in parallel with special circuit to > make it look like two AA's in series) are disappointing. Not only do > reviewers say they last no longer than NiMH, but they can't deliver the > current necessary to charge a flash and end up dying after the first shot. > > I was hopnig the product described here might be better, but it seems they > are not what they were described as being. Unfortunately there's no such animal as li-ion or li-po R6 battery, and unlikely to be one. To me it's annoying to have to use AA batteries for the flash, and BP511 Li-Ion packs for the camera. I could use AA batteries in the grip, but AA NiMH performance is much worse than BP511 performance, and in reality the NiMH batteries are no cheaper because BP511 packs are so widely available at such low prics. I wish Canon had made their later flashes able to use a BP511 or four AA cells. If it can work with four Lithium non-rechargeables at 4 x 1.7V = 6.8V then it could certainly have been made to work at the 7.4V of a BP511. I don't know what they did to the the RCR-V3 to limit the current to the point that it can't deliver enough current to charge the flash since there's no inherent reason that a 14500 could not deliver enough current. I use eneloops in my flash, but it's rather annoying to have to carry two different chargers. OTOH I would have an AA charger along for other devices anyway on most trips.
From: John Navas on 6 Jul 2010 11:34 On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 19:25:19 -0500, in <n3t436h35ghfb3o84vlc4m8lrb31ss9k8q(a)4ax.com>, Joel Connor <myemail(a)myserver.com> wrote: >There's a new type of 1.25v AA battery on the market, using a Lithium >Polymer configuration (not unlike the flat-pack in my MP3 player, but at a >different voltage) marketed by a company name of Hahnel. > >A quick cursory search for reviews and discussions seem favorable. With >good low-temperature performance down to 23� F (-5� C), fast charging >times, etc. > >Anyone here ever use them and care to comment? > >Comments from the resident role-playing "x-spurts" that don't even own >cameras are not welcome. Don't worry, we already know who you are. I think you're probably confusing CR-V3 with AA -- lithium can't be used for rechargable AA because the cell voltage is too high, but a single lithium cell can be used to replace two AA batteries in devices able to also take CR-V3. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CR-V3_battery> -- John Buying a dSLR doesn't make you a photographer, it makes you a dSLR owner. "The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it." -Ansel Adams
From: John Navas on 6 Jul 2010 11:37
On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 21:20:54 -0500, in <8m453659et51896c63begha3l739h4mqmi(a)4ax.com>, Joel Connor <myemail(a)myserver.com> wrote: >On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:56:30 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote: >>Well if our favorite troll was really interested in learning about >>camera batteries he could simply type "nimh versus lithium ion" into the >>Google search box and click on "I'm Feeling Lucky." > >And if the SMS troll was really interested in being a decent >pretend-photographer troll, he would know that Li-Ion is not ths same as >Li-Poly. Actually it pretty much is the same, just an evolutionary difference. -- John "Assumption is the mother of all screw ups." [Wethern�s Law of Suspended Judgement] |