The Electric Car
in [Design]
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From: The Ghost In The Machine on 5 Oct 2007 22:20 In sci.physics, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote on Fri, 05 Oct 2007 00:59:56 +0100 <47057E7C.FF0B93F2(a)hotmail.com>: > > > Rich Grise wrote: > >> Eeyore wrote: >> > Jamie wrote: >> > >> >> You guys are funny, near us, we have a gambling casino, "Mohegan Sun" >> >> They have and have had for at least 4 years now that I know of >> >> 3 Fuel cell generator complexes. These units operate the main facility >> >> 100% with plenty of reserve. They obviously are self sufficient because >> >> all they ever need to do is replace mechanical things that wear out, >> >> which is normal in any generating facility. >> > >> > So where does the energy to replace 'the things that wear out' come from ? >> > >> > Is this solar powered electrolytic hydrogen being used ? >> > >> > How much did it cost ? How much power does it generate ? What's the price per >> > kWh ? >> >> I just wonder where they're getting the hydrogen for these fuel >> cells. > > It turns out they're using good old natural gas. > > Graham > OK, dumb question...where does the carbon go? Best I can do is some sort of process where one might burn it off (CO2), use a catalyst to mix natural gas and oxygen and generate hydrogen and CO2 (which is about the same thing), or an anaerobic process that generates oils, something along the lines of 8CH4 = C8H18 + 7H2 only far more specific and doable. :-) Color me curious. I like the idea generally -- though am also wondering if natural gas can ever replace coal for the purposes of power generation; I doubt there's enough. -- #191, ewill3(a)earthlink.net Been there, done that, didn't get the T-shirt. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
From: The Ghost In The Machine on 5 Oct 2007 22:12 In sci.physics, John Larkin <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote on Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:43:13 -0700 <2c2ag3d2dob9segnld7ks2mj55dr8te6nr(a)4ax.com>: > On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:05:18 -0700, BradGuth <bradguth(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >>On Oct 3, 5:31 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...(a)hotmail.com> >>wrote: >>> BradGuthwrote: >>> > John Larkin wrote: >>> > >Willie.Moo...(a)gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> > > >THE ANSWER - LOW COST HYDROGEN FROM SUNLIGHT >>> >>> > > >One simple solution I have is to reduce the cost of photovoltaics to >>> > > >less than 7 cents a peak watt - and use that DC power to produce >>> > > >hydrogen from DI water at very los cost. Then store that hydrogen in >>> > > >empty oil wells - about 100 day supply is needed for a stable national >>> > > >hydrogen supply system.. >>> >>> > > 7 cents a watt would be wonderful, but it's about 30:1 away from what >>> > > anybody is doing, even at the research level. And if we had such >>> > > power, the first rational use is to dump it into the grid, not convert >>> > > it to hydrogen at absurd net efficiency. >>> >>> > > Low cost solar would be great, but there's no particular link to >>> > > hydrogen. Too many "advanced" energy concepts are predicated on >>> > > ultra-cheap solar power, cheap enough to waste prodigiously. That >>> > > ain't gonna happen. >>> >>> > And your plan of action for the wasting of such spare/surplus clean >>> > energy is ???? >>> >>> There is no 'spare energy' nor is there ever likely to be. Simple economics will >>> prevent it. >> >>You mean that Yids and others of your kind will prevent it. Trust me, >>we understand. > > It's remarkable how little you do understand. > > It's easy to imagine things when you are unencumbered by numbers. > > And what's this "Yid" obsession about? That makes as little sense as > the rest of your ravings. Is it not obvious? Yids [*], of course, are preventing us from building and then harvesting hydrogen peroxide from these towers. It's all their fault. It might be the yarmulkes, but it could be the dreidels. Something about square spinning tops and wearing certain headgear might hypnotize prospective investors into making a beeline to the nearest oil well or coal mine instead of doing the proper thing and building these towers. Personally, I think hypnodisks and simple chemistry/economics would be more effective, but what do I know? I'm Yiddish, of course -- BradGuth has said so. Mind you, I don't even have a yarmulke (though I do have a baseball cap or two), and the closest thing I have to a dreidel is a six-sided die, which I've lost somewhere in this place of mine, along with the rest of my Platonic-figured (aka Dungeons & Dragons) dice. Of course, that shouldn't matter to a true bigot anyway... :-) As for "spare energy"....I agree with Eeyore; we'll use the surplus for various things, if there ever is one. I'm not all that hopeful at this point, and in any event supply and demand will balance things out -- electricity will never be "too cheap to meter", as once claimed for fission power. > > John > > [*] Wikipedia suggests that the term is slightly perjorative as usually pronounced. The proper pronounciation, if any, is more along the lines of "yeed". -- #191, ewill3(a)earthlink.net If your CPU can't stand the heat, get another fan. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
From: Robert Adsett on 5 Oct 2007 23:02 In article <pan.2007.10.04.21.46.12.570998(a)example.net>, Bobo The Chimp says... > On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 14:26:39 -0700, Robert Adsett wrote: > > On Oct 4, 4:33 pm, BradGuth <bradg...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Oct 4, 12:34 pm, John Larkin > >> > Guth... that's Jewish, right? > >> > >> More like Mennonite, not that being Jewish is a bad thing. > > > > You'd never get that impression from your writing. > > > > Do the Mennonites mutilate their children as well? Brad does seem to be proof they are no more immune to anti-semitism than any other christian denominations. Robert -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
From: jimp on 6 Oct 2007 01:35 In sci.physics JosephKK <joseph_barrett(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > jimp(a)specsol.spam.sux.com jimp(a)specsol.spam.sux.com posted to > sci.electronics.design: > > In sci.physics JosephKK <joseph_barrett(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> jimp(a)specsol.spam.sux.com jimp(a)specsol.spam.sux.com posted to > >> sci.electronics.design: > > > >> > In sci.physics JosephKK <joseph_barrett(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> >> jimp(a)specsol.spam.sux.com jimp(a)specsol.spam.sux.com posted to > >> >> sci.electronics.design: > >> > > >> >> > In sci.physics Rich Grise <rich(a)example.net> wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:45:03 +0000, jimp wrote: > >> >> >> > In sci.physics Rich Grise <rich(a)example.net> wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 06:39:36 -0700, bill wrote: > >> >> >> [about LOX, H2O2, etc.] > >> >> >> ... > >> >> >> >> > I don't know if such a thing would really work, or > >> >> >> >> > what its > >> >> >> >> > effects on an engine would be, but its a kinda cool > >> >> >> >> > idea. I might make tinkering with it a winter project. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> You'll never get back the energy it took to liquefy the > >> >> >> >> O2. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Nothing is going to ignite until it is gas; that's what the > >> >> >> > intake and compression strokes are for. > >> >> > > >> >> >> Filling a TDC cylinder with liquid fuel and liquid O2, I bet > >> >> >> they'd ignite real good, if the LOX doesn't freeze the fuel; > >> >> >> you might need a lot of energy to make a spark through it, > >> >> >> however. > >> >> > > >> >> > Liquids don't ignite. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> >> If you are so very sure about, that i suggest that you try > >> >> mixing unsymmetrical di-methyl hydrazine (UDMH) and red fuming > >> >> nitric acid > >> >> (RFNA) (glacial). Take very serious precautions and read the > >> >> relevant MSDS before making the attempt. > >> > > >> > Do you understand the difference between combustion and a > >> > chemical reaction? > >> > > >> > I thought not. > >> > > >> > > > > >> How about you lookup hypergolic reactions? TWIT! You were given > >> sufficient to learn better for yourself, but no you just attack. > > > > Please list any land vehicles whose internal combustion engines run > > on hypergolic reactions. > > > > > I do not know of any. But there are plenty of space vehicles that use > this combination, precisely because it is a hypergolic pair. The one > step upline issue was can liquids burn? These do. Actually, the issue was liquids burning in an internal combustion engine. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply.
From: Willie.Mookie on 6 Oct 2007 02:19
On Oct 5, 9:34 pm, John Larkin <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 23:12:49 -0000, Willie.Moo...(a)gmail.com wrote: > >I am not selling equipment. I sell on forward contracts commodities. > >The people who buy the commodities don't care about where they get > >them. They just need them by a certain date. But they pay me today > >for a discounted price. And they accept the execution risk. Which is > >equivalent to discovery risk in developing resources. There are of > >course no market risk since these are commodities. > > >With this money I build own and operate facilities that use solar > >hydrogen to make gasoline from coal by direct hydrogenation, > >facilities that make fresh water and salt crystals from sea water > >using solar heat in a multi-stage flash evaporator, and facilities > >that upgrade residual oil to gasoline using hydrogen in a direct > >hydrogenation process. > > Show us some links to some such facilities. Nothing like that could be > done off the public record. > > John Haha.. actually that's what I thought. But it appears that the US media has a few blind spots in their unflinching eye. lol. A five page article appeared in Trust Magazine in Jakarta August 2006, when we signed the deal. And there is a strong continuing interest in Asian press. But there seems to be a disconnect between Asian and Western press. I was invited to New York City and was interviewed by reporters for the New York Times and Wall Street Journal. And articles were written. However, editors wouldn't run them. In time, the reporters moved on seeking to get their name in print. I did get a copy of A GAME AS OLD AS EMPIRE by Hiatt, from one of the reporters which describes in one of the sections how stories get canned from time to time http://www.mitrais.com/mining/miningNews060818.asp#7 http://www.bni.co.id/Portals/0/Document/Coal.pdf Page 5 of the .pdf file describes briefly what I'm doing under COAL LIQUEFACTION PRODUCTION INDONESIA. Now, I had a few websites and thought I could put information out there. But upon review I decided to drop the whole marketing thing when the project financing approach worked so well. After all, I'm not selling equipment or facilities. I'm selling commodities. How I make them doesn't really interest those who are buying them. Now, the risks involved are important to evaluate, but as long as excution risk is equal to or less than discovery risk in a more conventional development, that's acceptable to the investors I'm working with. At present I'm dealing with people who are willing to make rather large bets to solve some big resource problems and this technology looks interesting to them since it has the potential to do that and provide for the needs they've outlined for themselves. As far as the other programs are concerned, UAE is even less forthcoming and less connected to the Western media engine than Indonesia! lol. The Palms and similar developments notwithstanding. But in all cases as I mentioned folks are interested in solving major resource problems and are willing to make big bets to do that. Indonesia is an OPEC country, and the very first OPEC country to run out of oil. They entered secondary -that is declining - production in 2004 and those folks who invest in oil field exploration and development for OPEC nations were willing to do something out of the box to increase the oil reserves of Indonesia. This is one of many solutions they're working on, though I think mine the best. Australia is in the grip of a drought and is spending billions on increasing their water supplies. I was asked by an Aussie who read the articles in the Asian press could I do something about making water with sunlight. As a result I designed a thermal version of my system. And I proposed to a group of investors a method of using solar energy to drive a multi-stage flash evaporator that delivers not only fresh water, but salt also. These investors agreed to my build- own-operate facilities model. They pre-purchased the entire output of a facility I am now building in Australia at a discount, and agreed to pay a small continuing fee for water as its produced. I'll be in Sydney in a few weeks, you'll likely see more in the press at that time. UAE oil output is slowing though still increasing. The quality of oil, which is the highest in the Middle East, is dipping slightly. These are both indicators that UAE may be the next OPEC nation to enter secondary production sometime in the near future. UAE has oodles of sunlight. So, it makes sense for UAE to use sunlight to desalinate seawater from the Persian Gulf for use by that nation, and then produce hydrogen from some of the distilled water, and use that solar hydrogen locally in lieu of residual oil and natural gas they're now burning to provide electricity for their nation. The UAE installation will also use additional hydrogen to upgrade residual oil to gasoline. This increases the value of exported fuel since a barrel of gasoline is worth about $32 more than a barrel of residual oil, and at present 44% of all the oil produced in that country is residual oil. The stranded residual oil is upgraded and exported also as is the natural gas which is liquified and exported since hydrogen is displacing both in country. Eventually as oil output declines, liquified hydrogen shipments will be offered to the market - but hydrogen sales are not critical since the oil upgrades will have paid for everything (in fact have already paid for everything) Since sunlight will continue to fall on UAE long after the oil is depleted, creating a liquid hydrogen tanker system fed by seawater and sunlight will serve UAE for a long long time. Since reduction of residual oil will impact the fuel oil markets, these will be the ones that will be targeted for early adoption of LNG and later LH shipments. |