"The Science is Scuttled"
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From: Marvin the Martian on 9 Feb 2010 20:01 On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:46:01 +0000, Cwatters wrote: > "Benj" <bjacoby(a)iwaynet.net> wrote in message > news:99c4e18c-e4ab-47bd-ae9d- bc1119998a65(a)z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 7, 11:38 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > --Mike Jr. >> >> Seems unlikely that they are all wrong and you are right, Mike! > >>Right. Hey listen to the Worm, Mike. He'll set you straight that proof >>in science has to do with majority vote. > > That's right. The glaciers also took a vote and the majority decided to > melt. The photographers took a vote and agreed to fake lots of photos of > melting glaciers. Ice age ended 25,000 years ago. It is stupid to presume that the first 24,900 years was due to natural causes, but the last 100 years is now "man made". This is the same ruse that Columbus used to fool the Indians into feeding him. He had an almanac that predicted a lunar eclipse. The Indians saw the moon start going dark, and believed Columbus. Only with THIS melting glacier lie, the melting started thousands of years ago! Even if your silly "glaciers are melting" argument DID prove warming (and it does not... ice melts at a variety of temperatures above 0 C, even if the temperature stays the same or even cools) your argument would then be a post hoc fallacy. Warming alone does NOT prove warming is caused by CO2, or that we put the CO2 in the atmosphere, or that warming is bad.
From: Marvin the Martian on 9 Feb 2010 20:03 On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:33:02 +0000, Cwatters wrote: > "Mike Jr" <n00spam(a)comcast.net> wrote in message > news:50c7f5c9-ffc4-4314-88d9- ea535f89f965(a)a13g2000vbf.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 8, 4:46 am, "Cwatters" > <colin.wattersNOS...(a)TurnersOakNOSPAM.plus.com> wrote: >> "Benj" <bjac...(a)iwaynet.net> wrote in message >> >> news:99c4e18c-e4ab-47bd-ae9d- bc1119998a65(a)z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com... >> On Feb 7, 11:38 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > > --Mike Jr. >> >> > Seems unlikely that they are all wrong and you are right, Mike! >> >Right. Hey listen to the Worm, Mike. He'll set you straight that proof >> >in science has to do with majority vote. >> >> That's right. The glaciers also took a vote and the majority decided to >> melt. The photographers took a vote and agreed to fake lots of photos >> of melting glaciers. > >>Glaciers have been melting since the end of the last ice age. > > but not at current rates or they would have been gone long ago. Hello! Most of the glaciers are long since gone. GEESH! Most of North America was covered with glaciers.
From: Sam Wormley on 9 Feb 2010 22:26 On 2/9/10 7:01 PM, Marvin the Martian wrote: took a vote and agreed to fake lots of photos of > > Ice age ended 25,000 years ago. It is stupid to presume that the first > 24,900 years was due to natural causes, but the last 100 years is now > "man made". > It is the rapid and increasing rate of warming in the last decades that is troublesome. Recent changes in a remote Arctic lake are unique within the past 200,000 years http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/10/16/0907094106 Yarrow Axforda,1, Jason P. Brinerb, Colin A. Cookec, Donna R. Francisd, Neal Micheluttie, Gifford H. Millera,f, John P. Smole, Elizabeth K. Thomasb, Cheryl R. Wilsone and Alexander P. Wolfec + Author Affiliations aInstitute of Arctic and Alpine Research and fDepartment of Geological Sciences, University of Colorado, Boulder, CO 80309; bGeology Department, University at Buffalo, Buffalo, NY 14260; cDepartment of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, University of Alberta, Edmonton, AB, Canada T6G 2E3; dDepartment of Geosciences, University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA 01003; and ePaleoecological Environmental Assessment and Research Laboratory, Department of Biology, Queen's University, Kingston, ON, Canada K7L 3N6 Edited by Mark Brenner, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL, and accepted by the Editorial Board September 1, 2009 (received for review June 25, 2009) Abstract The Arctic is currently undergoing dramatic environmental transformations, but it remains largely unknown how these changes compare with long-term natural variability. Here we present a lake sediment sequence from the Canadian Arctic that records warm periods of the past 200,000 years, including the 20th century. This record provides a perspective on recent changes in the Arctic and predates by approximately 80,000 years the oldest stratigraphically intact ice core recovered from the Greenland Ice Sheet. The early Holocene and the warmest part of the Last Interglacial (Marine Isotope Stage or MIS 5e) were the only periods of the past 200,000 years with summer temperatures comparable to or exceeding today's at this site. Paleoecological and geochemical data indicate that the past three interglacial periods were characterized by similar trajectories in temperature, lake biology, and lakewater pH, all of which tracked orbitally-driven solar insolation. In recent decades, however, the study site has deviated from this recurring natural pattern and has entered an environmental regime that is unique within the past 200 millennia.
From: Cwatters on 10 Feb 2010 15:16 "Benj" <bjacoby(a)iwaynet.net> wrote in message news:8bf701cb-f6d7-4370-b9c5-604ea2f6c3df(a)a1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com... On Feb 9, 12:33 pm, "Cwatters" <colin.wattersNOS...(a)TurnersOakNOSPAM.plus.com> wrote: > "Mike Jr" <n00s...(a)comcast.net> wrote in message > >Glaciers have been melting since the end of the last ice age. > > but not at current rates or they would have been gone long ago. >Here's a hint SeaWaters. Statistics means a variation. Average rate >is not when you take the biggest number you ever measured and use it >as if it existed for all time. Truth is glaciers used to be melting >MUCH faster and have slowed down a LOT! Here's a hint Bent. The evidence currently suggests the rate of retreat has _accelerated_ in recent decades. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/20/climate-change-glaciers-melting "Those changes - the acceleration of the retreat of the glaciers and the fact that it is a global response - is the concerning part of all this. It is not any single glacier," he said
From: J. Clarke on 10 Feb 2010 20:27
Cwatters wrote: > "Benj" <bjacoby(a)iwaynet.net> wrote in message > news:8bf701cb-f6d7-4370-b9c5-604ea2f6c3df(a)a1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 9, 12:33 pm, "Cwatters" > <colin.wattersNOS...(a)TurnersOakNOSPAM.plus.com> wrote: >> "Mike Jr" <n00s...(a)comcast.net> wrote in message > >>> Glaciers have been melting since the end of the last ice age. >> >> but not at current rates or they would have been gone long ago. > >> Here's a hint SeaWaters. Statistics means a variation. Average rate >> is not when you take the biggest number you ever measured and use it >> as if it existed for all time. Truth is glaciers used to be melting >> MUCH faster and have slowed down a LOT! > > Here's a hint Bent. The evidence currently suggests the rate of > retreat has > _accelerated_ in recent decades. > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/20/climate-change-glaciers-melting > > "Those changes - the acceleration of the retreat of the glaciers and > the > fact that it is a global response - is the concerning part of all > this. It > is not any single glacier," he said Assuming that that data too hasn't been cooked. |