The fate of the Earth?
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From: Sam Wormley on 23 Sep 2009 10:36 oriel36 wrote: > > The only relevance of a star returning to a meridian is determining > the annual cycle for that is where the value of 365 days 5 hours 49 > minutes comes in by way of the equable 365/366 day calendar system > therefore what you see in terms of the 'sidereal time' value is not > the rotation of the Earth but merely something based on the average 24 > hour day within the equable 365/366 day system and God forbid people > mistake this for constant daily rotation,which unfortunately they do. > > > Not so, Gerald, a star returning to a meridian was used for accurate time keeping for centuries. For example, exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and the rotation rate is verified by direct observation by a star returning to a meridian. You know, Gerald, if the earth were flung out of the solar system, not orbiting a star at all, it's rotation rate could still be determined by successive return of a star (far far away) to a meridian. The reason I say "far far away" is, for the case of a star really close by, such as our sun, using it to measure rotation requires a bit more understanding. For example, the earth rotates exactly 360° in one sidereal day, and that it rotates about one additional degree (~361° total) in one solar day.
From: oriel36 on 26 Sep 2009 13:53 On Sep 23, 3:29 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)mchsi.com> wrote: > The reason I say far far away is for the case of a star really close > by, such as our sun, using it to measure rotation, requires a bit > more understanding. For example, the earth rotates exactly 360° in one > sidereal day, and that it rotates about one additional degree (~361° > total) in one solar day. It is somewhat disconcerting to be among people who are not even interested in the procedure which creates the 24 hour day,the reason why the natural noon cycles vary and more importantly ,why we experience seasonal variations in daylight and darkness as a consequence of planetary dynamics insofar as all are bound up together in an inviolate relationship.I have read that statement from you many times of the Earth rotating 361 degrees in 24 hours with dismay,not so much that you personally said it,but that it can exists as a dominant view in the minds of men ,something that I would not care to deal with and know too well is little more than a silly game in contrast to the sprawling history which relates the 24 hour day and a clock to planetary dimensions and shape organised around its rotational characteristics - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/World_globe.jpg Turn the globe 15 degrees/1 hour and it turns through a 1699.8 km geographical distance at the Equator and making an entire 40,075 km rotation in 24 hours/360 degrees and why oh why people would consider an alternative 'sidereal time' relationship I do not,do not know even though I have explained in detail where that value comes from. The interaction between daily rotation,orbital motion and the specifics of orbital motion generate the seasonal variations in daylight/darkness and also the reason why every noon cycle is different than 24 hours but averages to 24 hours over the course of the year.Even in antiquity,it would be possible to determine that a sample of 20 natural noon cycles would show each individual cycle to be unequal by a water clock or some other quantity based on volume but combining the entire 20 samples and dividing the volume into 20 equal amounts would give something close to the equable 24 hour day,the more samples the closer the equal amounts would register 24 hours.It is not a huge leap to create the 365/366 equable day calendar cycle based on the return of a star to a meridian in 365 days 5 hours 49 minutes but it is impossible to appreciate in an era that insists on giving credence to the return of a star to a meridian on a daily basis. The thoughts of showing something of the work of a great mind in antiquity who put the equable day/calendar system together as a single unit is almost unbearable knowing the reception it receives here and with nowhere else to demonstrate its sheer beauty in terms of the goodness that men can do,the fact that you scramble to defend a 'sidereal time' view which gets all the references backwards is no consolation for the fact that not a single individual has ever openly stated a basic fact of 24 hours for the rotation of the Earth and all the geometric and geographical information it contains let alone the consequences for terrestrial sciences such as the seasons,weather and climate.
From: Larry Caldwell on 3 Oct 2009 16:42 In article <20df3bab-9bae-4a7d-a49d- 29d0bff04fbd(a)z28g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, kelleher.gerald(a)gmail.com (oriel36) says... > The interaction between daily rotation,orbital motion and the > specifics of orbital motion generate the seasonal variations in > daylight/darkness and also the reason why every noon cycle is > different than 24 hours but averages to 24 hours over the course of > the year.Even in antiquity,it would be possible to determine that a > sample of 20 natural noon cycles would show each individual cycle to > be unequal by a water clock or some other quantity based on volume but > combining the entire 20 samples and dividing the volume into 20 equal > amounts would give something close to the equable 24 hour day,the more > samples the closer the equal amounts would register 24 hours.It is not > a huge leap to create the 365/366 equable day calendar cycle based on > the return of a star to a meridian in 365 days 5 hours 49 minutes but > it is impossible to appreciate in an era that insists on giving > credence to the return of a star to a meridian on a daily basis. ""A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers us again." - Alexander Pope These things that concern you were settled centuries ago. -- For email, replace firstnamelastinitial with my first name and last initial.
From: oriel36 on 4 Oct 2009 12:13 On Oct 3, 9:42 pm, Larry Caldwell <firstnamelastinit...(a)peaksky.com> wrote: > In article <20df3bab-9bae-4a7d-a49d- > 29d0bff04...(a)z28g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, kelleher.ger...(a)gmail.com > (oriel36) says... > > > The interaction between daily rotation,orbital motion and the > > specifics of orbital motion generate the seasonal variations in > > daylight/darkness and also the reason why every noon cycle is > > different than 24 hours but averages to 24 hours over the course of > > the year.Even in antiquity,it would be possible to determine that a > > sample of 20 natural noon cycles would show each individual cycle to > > be unequal by a water clock or some other quantity based on volume but > > combining the entire 20 samples and dividing the volume into 20 equal > > amounts would give something close to the equable 24 hour day,the more > > samples the closer the equal amounts would register 24 hours.It is not > > a huge leap to create the 365/366 equable day calendar cycle based on > > the return of a star to a meridian in 365 days 5 hours 49 minutes but > > it is impossible to appreciate in an era that insists on giving > > credence to the return of a star to a meridian on a daily basis. > > ""A little learning is a dang'rous thing; > Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: > There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, > And drinking largely sobers us again." > > - Alexander Pope > > These things that concern you were settled centuries ago. > Hah !,if I could find an individual who had enough common sense to work with rotation once in 24 hours I would consider it a major miracle let alone discuss the specifics of rotational characteristics as it applies to the viscous interior of the Earth.Throwing names of people who lived in the late 17th century at me,or rather,numbskulls who made a mess of things,is hardly a response I look for and especially this Pope guy who tried to put Newton on a pedestal. As for the new explanation for the seasons which assigns a new role for 'tilt' by using planetary comparison thereby jettisoning 'tilt' as a cause and shifting the dynamic behind seasonal changes to orbital specifics,it goes to show how much scientists know about global temperature fluctuations that are many magnitudes greater than any 'global warming' scenario. The zone of discussion is modern imaging and data,not the words of late 17th century dullards who knew nothing of planetary dynamics and their terrestrial effects so disappear like I know you will before material that is both new and exciting for those who actually like astronomy,geology and climate studies. > -- > For email, replace firstnamelastinitial > with my first name and last initial.
From: Sam Wormley on 4 Oct 2009 13:57
oriel36 wrote: > > Hah !,if I could find an individual who had enough common sense to > work with rotation once in 24 hours I would consider it a major > miracle let alone discuss the specifics of rotational characteristics > as it applies to the viscous interior of the Earth. There is a reason you can't find such an individual, as that is not the way nature, mathematics and humans works. Rare rotation is defined in terms of 2Ï radians (360°) for one complete rotation. The earth rotates 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds (one sidereal day)--Easily verified by almost anybody who can see. Do some self-education Gerald! |