Trailer and Power Generator
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From: amdx on 24 Jun 2010 18:40 -- MikeK "Neon John" <no(a)never.com> wrote in message news:ice726l8fttohp3h5aisdt7vi8hdfgdteh(a)4ax.com... > On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 10:36:43 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >>On Jun 24, 9:36 am, "amdx" <a...(a)knology.net> wrote: >> >>> Ya! The initial purpose is to keep 12 chest freezers running. >> >>Zowie! Think about getting a walk-in freezer, dude! Twelve >>chest freezers has a lot of surface area to insulate, one big >>unit would be lower maintenance and less power usage. > > Well, let's do a little math based on actual data. I've logged all > the power consumptions of all the appliances in my house and in my > restaurant. > > Initial cost. > > An 8' square walk-in costs about $5,000 installed. A large chest > freezer is around $300 at Sam's Club. 12 freezers is $3600. The win > on initial cost goes to the chest freezer. > > Capacity: No contest - 12 large chest freezers hold far more than a > walk-in because, well, one must leave room to walk around in the > walk-in. > > Operating cost. > > The large chest freezer that I have in my home consumes $4.41 a month > in electricity. Multiply that by 12 and $52.92. My approx 10' X 6' > walk-in freezer consumed $94.92/month measured during the summer > months. Again, the win goes to the chest freezers. All measurements > were done with calibrated revenue meters. > > http://www.neon-john.com/Misc/Energy_Audit.htm > > Reliability > > The walk-in has several single point failure vunerabilities. The > condensing unit. The liquid solenoid valve. The defrost timer. The > defrost heater. Etc. All failed during the 12 year life of that > walk-in. Unfortunately the compressor failed during our vacation > closing and all was lost. Insurance paid out about $8000 for that > one. If a chest freezer fails, he might lose those contents but the > other 11 are still running. Win goes to the chest freezers. > > The one major area where the walk-in wins is cool-down. The chest > freezers are so economical to operate because their refrigeration > systems are just barely large enough to keep already-cold contents > cold. Cool-down is very slow. The walk-in, OTOH, with its 3HP > compressor and high velocity evaporator fans would freeze a steam > table pan of boiling hot stew in about an hour. > > So based on the numbers, the correct advice is "keep the chest > freezers, dude!" Way cool man! We actually have a walk in, 9' x 6' x 6' we ran it for a short time as needed. But haven't used it for 5 or 6 years, it seems to be good as a storage locker at this point. I plug it in occasionally just as maintenance. My wife's gut feeling is that it uses a lot of electricity. She is quite aware of where the pennies go, so I didn't argue. I like to have real numbers, thanks for the study you made. As far as cool down, when we get shrimp to load in the freezers it is already frozen. If it wasn't, it would probably go bad before it froze! We usually put about 600 lbs in one freezer. Mike
From: Leo Lichtman on 24 Jun 2010 20:12 "Jim Wilkins" wrote: I asked the electrical inspector about that, but with an RV type plug wired to only a single receptacle inside and no connection to the house wiring, and he threw a snit fit. Is that legal and if so how can I prove it? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I don't know what the code says, but he may be a knee-jerk inspector who automatically condemns anything that "isn't the way it's done." If you plug one of your freezers into your generator, that's certainly legal. If you transfer them one at a time to the generator, that would still have to be legal. Now unplug one of your floor lamps and transfer it to the generator. Then, a piece at a time, put the rest of your household to the generator. At what point would he start objecting? If you are legal so far, then the only remaining step is unplugging from the utility. Could that put you in violation? Trouble is, the inspector may not be smart enough to follow simple logic.
From: hamilton on 25 Jun 2010 00:17 On 6/24/2010 3:26 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote: > On Jun 24, 4:22 pm, "Leo Lichtman"<leo.licht...(a)att.net> wrote: >> ... >> Before I installed a proper transfer switch, I used a kludge that worked >> well, and didn't cost much. I inserted a 4 connector twistlock connector >> pair into the line from my meter to the house. ... > > I asked the electrical inspector about that, but with an RV type plug > wired to only a single receptacle inside and no connection to the > house wiring, and he threw a snit fit. Is that legal and if so how can > I prove it? > > jsw As long as you don't have a fire, it's legal. If you have a fire, after a power outage, then it's over. good luck hamilton
From: whit3rd on 25 Jun 2010 05:12 On Jun 24, 1:17 pm, Neon John <n...(a)never.com> wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 10:36:43 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit...(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > >On Jun 24, 9:36 am, "amdx" <a...(a)knology.net> wrote: > > >> Ya! The initial purpose is to keep 12 chest freezers running. > > >Zowie! Think about getting a walk-in freezer, dude! Twelve > >chest freezers has a lot of surface area to insulate, one big > >unit would be lower maintenance and less power usage. > Initial cost. > > An 8' square walk-in costs about $5,000 installed. A large chest > freezer is around $300 at Sam's Club. 12 freezers is $3600. The win > on initial cost goes to the chest freezer. Not fair. The walk-in takes 64 sq feet of floor area, the twelve chests take over twice that. What's the cost of a building nowadays, $30 per square foot? > > Capacity: No contest - 12 large chest freezers hold far more than a > walk-in because, well, one must leave room to walk around in the > walk-in. Again, unfair. Choose the right size of walk-in and redo that argument. > The large chest freezer that I have in my home consumes $4.41 a month > in electricity. Multiply that by 12 and $52.92. My approx 10' X 6' > walk-in freezer consumed $94.92/month measured during the summer > months. Again, the win goes to the chest freezers. This sounds odd to me; firstly, a freezer indoors costs you twice, once in freezer electricity and (in summer) again in airconditioning cost. Secondly, walk-in freezers ought to have the same efficiency as a chest freezer, and should need less cooling because they have similar insulation but lower external surface area. > Reliability > > The walk-in has several single point failure vunerabilities. The > condensing unit. The liquid solenoid valve. The defrost timer. The > defrost heater. Etc. All failed during the 12 year life of that > walk-in. Unfortunately the compressor failed during our vacation > closing and all was lost. Insurance paid out about $8000 for that > one. If a chest freezer fails, he might lose those contents but the > other 11 are still running. Win goes to the chest freezers. Your 'spare' for the walk-in is gonna be a phone call to get a refrigerated container delivered. Any trucking company can do this for you. I'm dubious that you plan to lose all of the contents of a chest if/when one fails, either. And with twelve chest freezers, they're gonna fail twelve times as often. Either way, your contingency plans should cover faults.
From: amdx on 25 Jun 2010 08:06
-- MikeK "whit3rd" <whit3rd(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:7b4cc133-9a34-4efa-82ef-5925b23b387f(a)a30g2000yqn.googlegroups.com... On Jun 24, 1:17 pm, Neon John <n...(a)never.com> wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 10:36:43 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit...(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > >On Jun 24, 9:36 am, "amdx" <a...(a)knology.net> wrote: > > >> Ya! The initial purpose is to keep 12 chest freezers running. > > >Zowie! Think about getting a walk-in freezer, dude! Twelve > >chest freezers has a lot of surface area to insulate, one big > >unit would be lower maintenance and less power usage. >> Initial cost. > >> An 8' square walk-in costs about $5,000 installed. A large chest >> freezer is around $300 at Sam's Club. 12 freezers is $3600. The win > on initial cost goes to the chest freezer. >Not fair. The walk-in takes 64 sq feet of floor area, the >twelve chests take over twice that. What's the cost of >a building nowadays, $30 per square foot? It is cubic feet, not floor area that counts. The walkin is at least 2 times the height of the feezers. >> Capacity: No contest - 12 large chest freezers hold far more than a >> walk-in because, well, one must leave room to walk around in the >> walk-in. >Again, unfair. Choose the right size of walk-in and redo that argument. Refer to previous answer, a larger walkin will cost even more. >> The large chest freezer that I have in my home consumes $4.41 a month >> in electricity. Multiply that by 12 and $52.92. My approx 10' X 6' >> walk-in freezer consumed $94.92/month measured during the summer >> months. Again, the win goes to the chest freezers. This sounds odd to me; firstly, a freezer indoors costs you twice, >once ..in freezer electricity and (in summer) again in airconditioning cost. >Secondly, walk-in freezers ought to have the same efficiency as >a chest freezer, and should need less cooling because they have >similar insulation but lower external surface area. My freezers are outdoors in a screened porch. I agree on your lower external surface area, same efficiency staement. > Reliability > > The walk-in has several single point failure vunerabilities. The > condensing unit. The liquid solenoid valve. The defrost timer. The > defrost heater. Etc. All failed during the 12 year life of that > walk-in. Unfortunately the compressor failed during our vacation > closing and all was lost. Insurance paid out about $8000 for that > one. If a chest freezer fails, he might lose those contents but the > other 11 are still running. Win goes to the chest freezers. >Your 'spare' for the walk-in is gonna be a phone call to get >a refrigerated container delivered. Any trucking company can >do this for you. I'm dubious that you plan to lose all of >the contents of a chest if/when one fails, either. I never said I would lose all the contents of a chest freezer. That's why my alarms are set at -5F, so I get an early warning. And we always keep an empty one. >And with >twelve chest freezers, they're gonna fail twelve times as >often. Either way, your contingency plans should cover faults. Maybe, but chest freezers seem to have long lives, 10 to 20 years. |