Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E
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From: Tim Williams on 8 Apr 2010 23:31 >>Delay lines can't store milliseconds of pre-trigger data. The best >>they do is let you see a few ns of pre-trigger waveform. > > Enough to see what caused the trigger (and more than a few nS in some > cases). One case where a DSO comes in handy: http://myweb.msoe.edu/williamstm/Images/Induction1203.jpg something was clicking erratically, possibly a gate drive, I'm guessing it stuck on for at most a few cycles. Bad sign, and the clicking means magnetics, or worse yet, sheer amperes, are causing audible movement of wires or capacitors. You can see a number of cycles on this exposure, where current (bottom, triggered) is going wild, and you can see some voltage steps where the coupling capacitor got charged by this action. But without a pretrigger on the order of microseconds, I can't very well see when it's misbehaving. Tim -- Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
From: The Phantom on 9 Apr 2010 04:32 On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 19:16:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >On a sunny day (8 Apr 2010 14:14:01 -0500) it happened The Phantom ><phantom(a)aol.com> wrote in <kfasr5d3tpamudee5m5luu966l64oq6gl0(a)4ax.com>: > >>On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 17:06:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje(a)yahoo.com> >>wrote: >> >>>On a sunny day (Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:57:53 -0700 (PDT)) it happened brent >>><bulegoge(a)columbus.rr.com> wrote in >>><fb2980a4-6e02-48db-b20d-57eefa8df2a6(a)v8g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>: >>> >>>>On Apr 8, 10:01�am, John Larkin >>>beep BAD SYNTAX >>> >>>>> I can't think of much. Maybe clean X-Y plots; the digitals are sloppy >>>>> in X-Y mode. >>>>> >>>>> ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/Hills.JPG >>>>> >>>>> John >>>> >>>>When I am looking at video signals with higher power RF signals on the >>>>board I will take an analog scope any day. >>> >>>I agree, for video an analog scope is great. >>>In fact the *ONLY* reason for digital is storage, >>>and even then good analog storage scope once existed. >> >>I can think of a particular aspect of digital storage that, AFAIK, analog >>storage can't do. With digital storage, one can examine the signal BEFORE the >>trigger point. Has there ever been an analog storage scope that could do that? > >Yes, delay line. Your response is disingenuous. You know that's not what I was alluding to. The delay line in analog scopes is just long enough to see the full extent of the trigger event, and it's not a property of analog storage scopes alone; even non-storage scopes have a short delay line. Digital storage scopes, as you well know, can see MUCH, MUCH further back in time than just a 20 nS delay line's worth. You said "Storage is important when you look at one time events, long data sequences, or events with a very low duty cycle that on an analog scope would show with a too low intensity. Those are, as far as I know, The ONLY advantages of digitising." And, of course, those are not the ONLY advantages. The ability to look back in time far before the trigger event is a very great advantage.
From: The Phantom on 9 Apr 2010 04:42 On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 20:25:33 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>> >>>> The only new analog scopes I know of are minor brands, >>>> B&K/Instek/Kenwood sort of stuff. All the name-brand scopes are >>>> digital now. LeCroy used to sell the 470 MHz Iwatsu scope, but I think >>>> they gave that up. The Iwatsu SS-7840H is around $10K. And not even >>>> color. It looks to me like digital scopes are less expensive at pretty >>>> much every performance point. >>> >>>Yup, economy of scale and other factors. >>> >>>Iwatsu still do a 1GHz analog storage scope at $28K: >>>http://www.tequipment.net/IwatsuTS-81000.html >> >>This one is very nifty, but looking at the block diagram in the downloadable >>"technology" pdf file, it appears that the only way to watch more than one >>channel at a time is in alternate or chopped mode. Also, unlike digital >>storage, one can't look at events before the trigger point. >> >You sound as if this some kind of news. Having grown up with analog scopes, >pretrigger recording is just not that big a thing for me. How is "pretrigger recording" going to happen when the event you're looking is a one-shot event. Where will the data before the one-shot trigger be stored? >>> >>>The 400MHz analog is $7500: >>>http://www.tequipment.net/IwatsuSS-7840.html >>>and the 470MHz at $12K+: >>>http://www.tequipment.net/IwatsuSS-7847A.html >>>Ouch! >>> >>>Hameg do a 200MHz analog at $2500: >>>http://www.hameg.com/335.0.html?L=0 >>>The Instek 200MHz one is $1800 >>> >>>Dave.
From: The Phantom on 9 Apr 2010 04:46 On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 17:36:30 -0500, "krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >On 8 Apr 2010 14:14:01 -0500, The Phantom <phantom(a)aol.com> wrote: > >>On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 17:06:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje(a)yahoo.com> >>wrote: >> >>>On a sunny day (Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:57:53 -0700 (PDT)) it happened brent >>><bulegoge(a)columbus.rr.com> wrote in >>><fb2980a4-6e02-48db-b20d-57eefa8df2a6(a)v8g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>: >>> >>>>On Apr 8, 10:01�am, John Larkin >>>beep BAD SYNTAX >>> >>>>> I can't think of much. Maybe clean X-Y plots; the digitals are sloppy >>>>> in X-Y mode. >>>>> >>>>> ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/Hills.JPG >>>>> >>>>> John >>>> >>>>When I am looking at video signals with higher power RF signals on the >>>>board I will take an analog scope any day. >>> >>>I agree, for video an analog scope is great. >>>In fact the *ONLY* reason for digital is storage, >>>and even then good analog storage scope once existed. >> >>I can think of a particular aspect of digital storage that, AFAIK, analog >>storage can't do. With digital storage, one can examine the signal BEFORE the >>trigger point. Has there ever been an analog storage scope that could do that? > >Sure. Have you ever heard of delay lines? Also, delaying timebases were >commonly used to look "before" the trigger event. Please explain how a delaying timebase could allow one to see events before (and I mean much more than a delay line's worth of "before") the trigger event if the trigger event is a one-shot event; no periodic waveforms involved. >There are applications >where I'd still like a calibrated delayed timebase. > >>>Storage is important when you look at one time events, long data sequences, >>>or events with a very low duty cycle that on an analog scope would show with >>>a too low intensity. >>>Those are, as far as I know, The ONLY advantages of digitising. >>>Maybe the FFT thing, and some other processing of data can be added as advantage >>>but that is actually no longer a scope. >>>Larking is a scope buyer, he seems to just buy and buy scopes, >>>not a real scope wizard. >>>I have re-scaled him to 3 on a 0-10 scale. >>> >>>
From: The Phantom on 9 Apr 2010 05:47
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 19:52:47 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 17:36:30 -0500, "krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: > >>On 8 Apr 2010 14:14:01 -0500, The Phantom <phantom(a)aol.com> wrote: >> >>>On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 17:06:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje(a)yahoo.com> >>>wrote: >>> >>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:57:53 -0700 (PDT)) it happened brent >>>><bulegoge(a)columbus.rr.com> wrote in >>>><fb2980a4-6e02-48db-b20d-57eefa8df2a6(a)v8g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>: >>>> >>>>>On Apr 8, 10:01�am, John Larkin >>>>beep BAD SYNTAX >>>> >>>>>> I can't think of much. Maybe clean X-Y plots; the digitals are sloppy >>>>>> in X-Y mode. >>>>>> >>>>>> ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/Hills.JPG >>>>>> >>>>>> John >>>>> >>>>>When I am looking at video signals with higher power RF signals on the >>>>>board I will take an analog scope any day. >>>> >>>>I agree, for video an analog scope is great. >>>>In fact the *ONLY* reason for digital is storage, >>>>and even then good analog storage scope once existed. >>> >>>I can think of a particular aspect of digital storage that, AFAIK, analog >>>storage can't do. With digital storage, one can examine the signal BEFORE the >>>trigger point. Has there ever been an analog storage scope that could do that? >> >>Sure. Have you ever heard of delay lines? Also, delaying timebases were >>commonly used to look "before" the trigger event. There are applications >>where I'd still like a calibrated delayed timebase. > >You are right. I have done things (been able to see things) with delayed sweep >that i still cannot duplicate with a digital scope. Why weren't you able to do what you wanted to do with a digital scope? What model digital scope was it? Go have a look over on alt.binaries.schematics.electronic. >And that is with a mere 100 >MHz bandwidth. > >Digital scope manufacturers, you now have a well defined target to accomplish. > >> >>>>Storage is important when you look at one time events, long data sequences, >>>>or events with a very low duty cycle that on an analog scope would show with >>>>a too low intensity. >>>>Those are, as far as I know, The ONLY advantages of digitising. >>>>Maybe the FFT thing, and some other processing of data can be added as advantage >>>>but that is actually no longer a scope. >>>>Larking is a scope buyer, he seems to just buy and buy scopes, >>>>not a real scope wizard. >>>>I have re-scaled him to 3 on a 0-10 scale. >>>> >>>> |