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From: wolfgang kern on 21 May 2007 11:52 Frank wrote: [...] > ....and start with easier questions. > "What's a bit?", "What's a one?", "What's a zero?" > It would sort of tickle me to start a tutorial with "What's a > zero?" :) "0asm.html" would sort nicely... :) Because of Chucks interesting review of the history, I searched for my old library (in sealed boxes since decades) and found a book "first steps into electronic" (German 1965). ________ It really starts with the very basic 'bit': * from switches, wires and lamps to tubes and semiconductors * AND OR XOR NOT (also explains pos/neg logic for 0/1;true/false) * how a BIT can be remembered (various memory cell types) The second chapter describes binary (as combined bits): * representation of BIN OCT HEX * binary calculation rules (add sub mul div and fractions) * other codes (BCD,Gray,Excess-3,...) In the third: * complex gates, counters, timers, decoders, ... The forth: * settlement and controlling * "first programming" a sequence The fifth: * EDP in overview, magnet-core memory, tapes and "HD" :):) * ALU and controller (named CPU now) * LOAD and STORE ("mov" yet) * IBM "Command Words" [operation/operand/address] * Programming: LOOPs,Conditions,SubRoutines The final: * machine independent programming languages * computer aided automation processes (CRC machine control) * punch-hole tapes and the famous IBM/Hollerith cards :):) * a few examples ______ This book show both, digital and analogue solutions and it states at the very begin that the reader shall know about basic electric. __ wolfgang
From: Evenbit on 21 May 2007 19:54 On May 21, 5:54 am, Frank Kotler <fbkot...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > > I notice that you haven't made use of the tagging. If I > > edit or add anything, I could use tags to mark those items... then if > > I send the document back to you, you'd know exactly how I made a mess > > of your work. ;) > > I left the tags open for you, Nathan! :) Actually, I haven't figured out > how to use 'em. If you're inclined to do anything and send it to me, > I'll post it up, of course. If I understand a comment on Jeremy's site, > there's a site (tiddlyspot.com) where we could post such a thing and > "share" it. If that means multiple people could work on it - and save > changes - online - that would be quite cool! I'll have to look into > it... Otherwise "version control" might get complicated... Well I just played with tiddlyspot (created a temperary account, then deleted it). Unfortunatly, it doesn't actually mimic Wikipedia in functionality. They provide a version where you can save your edits while online, or you can 'download', edit at will, then 'upload' and all of this is via one account + password. Doesn't exactly lend itself to a "team effort" but I suppose (with the right gumption and co-operation) it could be managed. Nathan.
From: Evenbit on 21 May 2007 23:59 On May 21, 4:54 am, Frank Kotler <fbkot...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > Has anyone who has actually *run* the "Twelve Lessons" in RosAsm, as The > Creator intended, commented on 'em? Maybe my "imagination" is making > them look better than they really are (if so, can this be fixed?)... > They really seem excellent to me! I have run a few of them ( and Rene will get my notes, patience ) and they do seem pretty good. But I do agree with Randy about the audience aspect. I wouldn't expect a beginner to understand those lessons if they haven't first read a primer ( maybe B_U_Asm fits this bill?? ) explaining necessary foundational material. There are many things that "we" take for granted but a "beginner" isn't going to know. Remember that Julienne Walker's tutorial for NASM didn't make the assumption that the reader understood hexadecimal... and she didn't introduce the subject either (it would have been a non-needed diversion)... all of her examples were filled with 'regular' "layman- readable" *decimal* numbers -- nothing alien at all. > > As for Ezasm... it needs another name. There's an "EzAsm" assembler > (although not for x86, I guess). Maybe it needs to back up and start > with easier questions. "What's a bit?", "What's a one?", "What's a > zero?" It would sort of tickle me to start a tutorial with "What's a > zero?" :) "0asm.html" would sort nicely... :) "StartAsm" so it can be abreviated as "SASM"??? ;) Nathan.
From: Betov on 22 May 2007 03:11 Evenbit <nbaker2328(a)charter.net> �crivait news:1179806369.128595.93620 @q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > I wouldn't expect a beginner to understand those > lessons if they haven't first read a primer ( maybe B_U_Asm fits this > bill?? ) explaining necessary foundational material. There are many > things that "we" take for granted but a "beginner" isn't going to > know. Yes, this is an evident problem, but there is even _worse_ than this. There seem to be something "magic" with the confusion state of a true beginner facing its first lesson: They sometimes report that, at their first contact, they did not understood a thing. Nevertheless, after a bit of time, and insistence, they finaly get into. Now, the really strange thing, is that, when i ask them to _report_ about the very first difficulties they have encounted, they are _regulary_ unable to understand, by themselves, _what_ was the problem, for them... A very strange psycho-effect... Probably like if, when facing something entirely new, the brain was not really working... I will have to ask my wife (spycho-teacher), if such a problem has already been subject of some psycho study... If what i am suspecting is true, there will never be any real solution to this problem, but to recommend beginners to _insist_... Back to the topic: Yes, i have been pointing to the pre-requises, and to the fact that there may be as many way, for learning, as beginners. So, i have simply added a line, at top of Lesson_1, for directing to: B_U_Asm ---> [Beginner's Steps]... where a beginner can read various stuffs, in the order he wants to. After all, we ignore completely what a given beginners already knows and does not. Therefore, explaining everything, in the linear order, is not the way either, because reading already known things is boring, and can have no effect on the learning curse, but to push the brain to "sleep state" and to miss important details. Betov. < http://rosasm.org >
From: rhyde on 22 May 2007 12:30
On May 22, 12:11 am, Betov <b...(a)free.fr> wrote: > > There seem to be something "magic" with the confusion state of a true > beginner facing its first lesson: They sometimes report that, at their > first contact, they did not understood a thing. Nevertheless, after a > bit of time, and insistence, they finaly get into. Anyone can learn a subject if they devote enough time to it. Brilliant tutorials are the ones that make efficient use of the student's time and help them learn the subject as quickly and efficiently as possible. That observation over many years is what led to the development of HLA, for example. > > Now, the really strange thing, is that, when i ask them to _report_ > about the very first difficulties they have encounted, they are > _regulary_ unable to understand, by themselves, _what_ was the > problem, for them... A very strange psycho-effect... There is nothing strange about this at all. Anyone who has taught a single class understands this situation. The beginners/students don't have the background knowledge to properly formulate their responses and questions. That's why it *is* important to provide all the background information when writing a tutorial. A beginner is not going to tell you that they don't understand hexadecimal numbers; they don't know what a hexadecimal number is, how could they tell you that they don't understand them? A beginner is going to look at your tutorial one and ask "what is the purpose of this?" "What am I learning here?" and questions like that which you simply do not answer. > Probably like > if, when facing something entirely new, the brain was not really > working... Yes, blame the failure of the tutorial on the student, not the author of the tutorial. Better to look at the fact that beginners are having problems understanding what it's all about and ask yourself "How can this be changed so that a beginner will understand this material and I can minimize the number of questions they will have." > I will have to ask my wife (spycho-teacher), if such > a problem has already been subject of some psycho study... If what > i am suspecting is true, there will never be any real solution to > this problem, but to recommend beginners to _insist_... Dude. People have been teaching assembly language programming since the dawn of computers. Remember the bell curve? (Ask your wife if you've forgotten.) There is a solution to the problem. Basically, you need to learn a little bit about *teaching* if you want to write a good tutorial that teaches assembly language programming. > > Back to the topic: Yes, i have been pointing to the pre-requises, > and to the fact that there may be as many way, for learning, as > beginners. So, i have simply added a line, at top of Lesson_1, > for directing to: B_U_Asm ---> [Beginner's Steps]... where a > beginner can read various stuffs, in the order he wants to. Then, what is the purpose of your tutorial? If all the actual learning takes place in that prerequisite material, why should they bother with your tutorials? Again, what are your goals? What do they get out of those tutorials. If learning actual assembly language takes place elsewhere, why is running those tutorials an efficient use of the student's time? > After all, we ignore completely what a given beginners already > knows and does not. Therefore, explaining everything, in the > linear order, is not the way either, because reading already > known things is boring, and can have no effect on the learning > curse, but to push the brain to "sleep state" and to miss important > details. Yes, going through tutorials with large gaps in the information they're presenting is *exciting*. Great justification there, Rene. Face it, learning assembly language (or *any* subject for that matter) is going to be boring. It's hard work. It takes a lot of time. However, presenting the material in a non-linear fashion and raising more questions than you answer does not make learning the subject any *less* boring. Instead, you want to choose a good pedagogical method that motivates the student; for example, taking advantage of their HLL programming knowledge. They've already mastered the hard stuff (learning how to program) when learning a HLL. A tutorial would be *foolish* if it didn't take advantage of that knowledge when teaching assembly language programming. hLater, Randy Hyde |