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From: Betov on 13 May 2007 03:21 Frank Kotler <fbkotler(a)verizon.net> �crivait news:UZs1i.7629$cu1.4163(a)trnddc01: > I don't think you need to > go with the "generic" syntax - the usual RosAsm syntax would be fine. The general situation is perfectly clear, at this point of view: There does not exist good Tutorials, for beginners, that would introduce to the basics the fast and easy way. There are _tons_ of Tutorials for "this and that" topic, but we have to imagine the difficulties of a beginner, starting, say, with FASM, NASM or whatever. You can see ultimate cases, like, for example, MASM, where Hutch is frankely saying to the beginners, that "Assembly is not for beginners", and that "they have to learn an HLL, first". So, i believe it usefull to propose basics' Tutorials, not being limited to one Assembler only, but that any other Assembler could use, as an introduction, as well. Therefore, the most generic, the better, and i don't think that, after having learned these Lessons, a beginner would encount much difficulties, when switching to his finaly chosen Assembler. The reason why it is better to keep closer to, say, NASM or FASM syntexic basics than to the simplified RosAsm syntax. [... Review of Lesson 1...] Thanks, but i have a doubt here: > ;; > This 'ExitProcess' is a Function of the OS (in 'KERNEL32.DLL, > exactly), whose job is to terminate the Program's Execution > (Process End, Handles closure...). > ;; "whose"? Are you sure? It was saying "which", and i do not understand how it should be "whose" and why... Thanks, anyway. Betov. < http://rosasm.org >
From: Frank Kotler on 13 May 2007 03:58 Betov wrote: > Frank Kotler <fbkotler(a)verizon.net> �crivait > news:UZs1i.7629$cu1.4163(a)trnddc01: > > >>I don't think you need to >>go with the "generic" syntax - the usual RosAsm syntax would be fine. > > > The general situation is perfectly clear, at this point of view: > > There does not exist good Tutorials, for beginners, that would > introduce to the basics the fast and easy way. There are _tons_ > of Tutorials for "this and that" topic, but we have to imagine > the difficulties of a beginner, starting, say, with FASM, NASM > or whatever. You can see ultimate cases, like, for example, MASM, > where Hutch is frankely saying to the beginners, that "Assembly > is not for beginners", and that "they have to learn an HLL, first". > > So, i believe it usefull to propose basics' Tutorials, not being > limited to one Assembler only, but that any other Assembler could > use, as an introduction, as well. Therefore, the most generic, the > better, and i don't think that, after having learned these Lessons, > a beginner would encount much difficulties, when switching to his > finaly chosen Assembler. The reason why it is better to keep closer > to, say, NASM or FASM syntexic basics than to the simplified RosAsm > syntax. > > > [... Review of Lesson 1...] > > Thanks, but i have a doubt here: > > >>;; >> This 'ExitProcess' is a Function of the OS (in 'KERNEL32.DLL, >> exactly), whose job is to terminate the Program's Execution >> (Process End, Handles closure...). >>;; > > > "whose"? Are you sure? It was saying "which", and i do not > understand how it should be "whose" and why... > > Thanks, anyway. Suit yourself... Best, Frank
From: Betov on 13 May 2007 03:59 "rhyde(a)cs.ucr.edu" <rhyde(a)cs.ucr.edu> �crivait news:1179024456.478581.52770(a)l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com: > First of all, let's talk about the audience for this tutorial: > > 1) Is it someone who already knows another assembly language and wants > to learn RosAsm? > answer: probably not. Rene has claimed it is for "beginners" and > someone who already knows another assembler wouldn't really qualify as > a "beginner". Right, clown: For an Asmer who would wish to discover RosAsm, there are the other Visual Tutorials, admitting he would really need them, before switching directly to the many Examples and Demos. > 2) Is it someone who has already learned how to program in a HLL and > now wants to learn assembly? > answer: again, probably not. Rene tells us that learning assembly > language is easier than learning a HLL, and that people shouldn't > bother with HLLs. Why not, clown? A beginner who would already have learned an HLL will, of course, have additional difficulties at undertanding Assembly, and how simple and easy it is. But... what can i do about this? > 3) Is it someone who has never programmed before and wants to learn > programming using assembly language? > answer: this would be the audience that Rene's past posts would > suggest. Yes, it is, clown. > It would also help if, prior to this point, there was *some* > explanation of how to use the editor, the menus, stuff like that. A > *pure text* explanation of the system would be most helpful here. :)))) Well... for your other criticisms, nobody has any doubt on the fact that you could write a one Mega Pdf for explaining how to use a Menu, or two Megas about what a mouse button is... :) But, here, the target was to write a Tutorials set that would be as _short_, as _simple_, and as _easy_ as possible. Time will tell if they reach their purpose, and what difficulties the beginners could encount with it, but, considering the complete failure of your "Top-Down" method, as regulary demonstrated at all medias, by the amaizing difficulties encounted by your victims, i am afraid that it will be difficult to do worse than what you did. For now, from the feedback of the couple of beginners, who have read the Twelve Lessons, i do not have indications about difficulties, and they seem to be happy of these materials. What did they really _learn_, i have no idea, but, at least they did not complain about difficulties. You know... i have also seen guys asking questions like: "I have downloaded RosAsm, but i don't know how to install it because there is no Installer". :) Or: "I have been told that RosAsm includes a Disassembler, but i do not find where it is". :)) In such cases, i am not sure if it is really usefull to explain where the Mouse is, and what a Menu is. You should know of this, as long as, with your IQ under 80, you belong to these hopeless cases. :)) Betov. < http://rosasm.org >
From: Betov on 13 May 2007 04:35 Frank Kotler <fbkotler(a)verizon.net> �crivait news:5Hx1i.61553$Ae.6719 @trnddc07: > rhyde(a)cs.ucr.edu wrote: > > ... >> What's a "Blank area"? > > Let me gaze into my crystal ball and see if I can predict Betov's > response to this. Mmmm, very cloudy... Can't imagine what he's going to > say... :) Well, i am going to say: "anywhere in the client area, but upon anything written". .... like in the english expression, being noticed in my dictionary: "A blank page" Now, i can very well predict the next questions: * What is "a client area"? * What is a mouse? * What is "clicking"? .... :) Betov. < http://rosasm.org >
From: Frank Kotler on 13 May 2007 05:40
Betov wrote: > Frank Kotler <fbkotler(a)verizon.net> �crivait news:5Hx1i.61553$Ae.6719 > @trnddc07: > > >>rhyde(a)cs.ucr.edu wrote: >> >>... >> >>>What's a "Blank area"? >> >>Let me gaze into my crystal ball and see if I can predict Betov's >>response to this. Mmmm, very cloudy... Can't imagine what he's going to >>say... :) > > > Well, i am going to say: > > "anywhere in the client area, but upon anything written". > > ... like in the english expression, being noticed in my dictionary: > > "A blank page" Okay... My crystal ball is broken. It was cloudy, but looked something like "the area between your ears, Clown". :) > Now, i can very well predict the next questions: > > * What is "a client area"? Yeah, you were better off with "blank". If all else fails, you can tell 'em to look in the mirror for an example of a "blank look". :) > * What is a mouse? > > * What is "clicking"? Well, see! That's why I like the command prompt! Best, Frank |