VS 2010 is cheaper
in [MFC]
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From: Joseph M. Newcomer on 5 Mar 2010 14:54 See below... On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 17:55:11 +0100, "Bo Persson" <bop(a)gmb.dk> wrote: >Cmplx80 wrote: >> Ajay Kalra wrote: >>> On Mar 4, 1:45 pm, "David Ching" <d...(a)remove-this.dcsoft.com> >>> wrote: >>>> A while ago, we were bemoaning the loss of VS 2010 Standard, and >>>> the price of VS 2008 Professional (presumably with a free upgrade >>>> to 2010) >>>> was something like $1500 USD. >>>> >>>> Now there are new VS 2010 >>>> prices.http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/Microsoft-Offers-Dea... >>>> >>>> Basically if you have VS 2005/2008 Standard, you can get VS2010 >>>> Standard for $299. And even if you are totally new to VS, you >>>> can get VS2010 Professional for $799 and upgrade for $549. And >>>> Professional now >>>> comes with MSDN Essentials. So the prices are much cheaper than >>>> we had been >>>> led to believe. >>> >>> Comments about the product in this NG havent been that glorifying >>> though. I >>> >>> -- >>> Ajay >>> >>> >>> >> Biggest (VS2010 RC) complaint here is that the documentation/help >> system has been rendered 100% useless by moving it from an >> integrated function to a goofy and magnanimously dysfunctional >> browser-based scheme. No index, no filters (that I can find), new >> browser page tabs becoming lost in a sea of other browser page >> tabs, missing pieces, dot, dot, dot. How does this happen? Who is >> responsible for letting stuff like this hit the shipping dock? >> **** Sadly, nobody seemed to be paying attention to the user interface. It is possibly the WORST help interface EVER in the history of help interfaces, being even WORSE than the VBA "help" that appears in the Office Automation parts of Office. In its current form, it is more properly labeled a "hindrance". We can only hope that this will be fixed ASAP. What I see is not even vaguely construable as useful even under the worst possible desperation. <sillyconjecture> The design of the online help suggests that its purpose is to promote the sale of hardcopy MFC documentation, since it is even less usable than a hardcopy reference manual. At least hardcopy reference manuals have an index! </sillyconjecture> joe **** > >Fortunately Google has indexed the pages, so - just like before - you >can find the MSDN pages much faster than the local help info. > > >Bo Persson > Joseph M. Newcomer [MVP] email: newcomer(a)flounder.com Web: http://www.flounder.com MVP Tips: http://www.flounder.com/mvp_tips.htm
From: Cmplx80 on 5 Mar 2010 16:02 Bo Persson wrote: > Cmplx80 wrote: >> Ajay Kalra wrote: >>> On Mar 4, 1:45 pm, "David Ching" <d...(a)remove-this.dcsoft.com> >>> wrote: >>>> A while ago, we were bemoaning the loss of VS 2010 Standard, and >>>> the price of VS 2008 Professional (presumably with a free upgrade >>>> to 2010) >>>> was something like $1500 USD. >>>> >>>> Now there are new VS 2010 >>>> prices.http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/Microsoft-Offers-Dea... >>>> >>>> Basically if you have VS 2005/2008 Standard, you can get VS2010 >>>> Standard for $299. And even if you are totally new to VS, you >>>> can get VS2010 Professional for $799 and upgrade for $549. And >>>> Professional now >>>> comes with MSDN Essentials. So the prices are much cheaper than >>>> we had been >>>> led to believe. >>> Comments about the product in this NG havent been that glorifying >>> though. I >>> >>> -- >>> Ajay >>> >>> >>> >> Biggest (VS2010 RC) complaint here is that the documentation/help >> system has been rendered 100% useless by moving it from an >> integrated function to a goofy and magnanimously dysfunctional >> browser-based scheme. No index, no filters (that I can find), new >> browser page tabs becoming lost in a sea of other browser page >> tabs, missing pieces, dot, dot, dot. How does this happen? Who is >> responsible for letting stuff like this hit the shipping dock? >> > > Fortunately Google has indexed the pages, so - just like before - you > can find the MSDN pages much faster than the local help info. > > > Bo Persson > > I prefer offline help. Big drives = putting stuff on my system. There is a program, "H3Viewer" than runs on top of the existing help files and is an improvement, but the underpinnings are still browser based and (IMHO) although a valiant effort, still has a klunky feel. Frank
From: Joseph M. Newcomer on 5 Mar 2010 16:13 See below... On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 15:02:24 -0600, Cmplx80 <Cmplx80(a)Karma.com> wrote: >Bo Persson wrote: >> Cmplx80 wrote: >>> Ajay Kalra wrote: >>>> On Mar 4, 1:45 pm, "David Ching" <d...(a)remove-this.dcsoft.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> A while ago, we were bemoaning the loss of VS 2010 Standard, and >>>>> the price of VS 2008 Professional (presumably with a free upgrade >>>>> to 2010) >>>>> was something like $1500 USD. >>>>> >>>>> Now there are new VS 2010 >>>>> prices.http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/Microsoft-Offers-Dea... >>>>> >>>>> Basically if you have VS 2005/2008 Standard, you can get VS2010 >>>>> Standard for $299. And even if you are totally new to VS, you >>>>> can get VS2010 Professional for $799 and upgrade for $549. And >>>>> Professional now >>>>> comes with MSDN Essentials. So the prices are much cheaper than >>>>> we had been >>>>> led to believe. >>>> Comments about the product in this NG havent been that glorifying >>>> though. I >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ajay >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Biggest (VS2010 RC) complaint here is that the documentation/help >>> system has been rendered 100% useless by moving it from an >>> integrated function to a goofy and magnanimously dysfunctional >>> browser-based scheme. No index, no filters (that I can find), new >>> browser page tabs becoming lost in a sea of other browser page >>> tabs, missing pieces, dot, dot, dot. How does this happen? Who is >>> responsible for letting stuff like this hit the shipping dock? >>> >> >> Fortunately Google has indexed the pages, so - just like before - you >> can find the MSDN pages much faster than the local help info. >> >> >> Bo Persson >> >> >I prefer offline help. Big drives = putting stuff on my system. >There is a program, "H3Viewer" than runs on top of the existing help >files and is an improvement, but the underpinnings are still browser >based and (IMHO) although a valiant effort, still has a klunky feel. > >Frank **** As I have pointed out repeatedly, the reality distortion field that convinces people that end users have 24/7 broadband access to help is a serious impediment in the design process. I spend most of my flying time (and I fly at least once a month, more than half of those flights are > 4 hours, and I rarely have Internet access at my work sites, a week at a time). The correct model is to ASSUME offline capabilities are required, and in the fortunate condition where online access is possible, that's cool, but it should not be the base model for help systems. joe **** Joseph M. Newcomer [MVP] email: newcomer(a)flounder.com Web: http://www.flounder.com MVP Tips: http://www.flounder.com/mvp_tips.htm
From: Cmplx80 on 5 Mar 2010 16:39 Joseph M. Newcomer wrote: > See below... > On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 15:02:24 -0600, Cmplx80 <Cmplx80(a)Karma.com> wrote: > >> Bo Persson wrote: >>> Cmplx80 wrote: >>>> Ajay Kalra wrote: >>>>> On Mar 4, 1:45 pm, "David Ching" <d...(a)remove-this.dcsoft.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> A while ago, we were bemoaning the loss of VS 2010 Standard, and >>>>>> the price of VS 2008 Professional (presumably with a free upgrade >>>>>> to 2010) >>>>>> was something like $1500 USD. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now there are new VS 2010 >>>>>> prices.http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/Microsoft-Offers-Dea... >>>>>> >>>>>> Basically if you have VS 2005/2008 Standard, you can get VS2010 >>>>>> Standard for $299. And even if you are totally new to VS, you >>>>>> can get VS2010 Professional for $799 and upgrade for $549. And >>>>>> Professional now >>>>>> comes with MSDN Essentials. So the prices are much cheaper than >>>>>> we had been >>>>>> led to believe. >>>>> Comments about the product in this NG havent been that glorifying >>>>> though. I >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ajay >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Biggest (VS2010 RC) complaint here is that the documentation/help >>>> system has been rendered 100% useless by moving it from an >>>> integrated function to a goofy and magnanimously dysfunctional >>>> browser-based scheme. No index, no filters (that I can find), new >>>> browser page tabs becoming lost in a sea of other browser page >>>> tabs, missing pieces, dot, dot, dot. How does this happen? Who is >>>> responsible for letting stuff like this hit the shipping dock? >>>> >>> Fortunately Google has indexed the pages, so - just like before - you >>> can find the MSDN pages much faster than the local help info. >>> >>> >>> Bo Persson >>> >>> >> I prefer offline help. Big drives = putting stuff on my system. >> There is a program, "H3Viewer" than runs on top of the existing help >> files and is an improvement, but the underpinnings are still browser >> based and (IMHO) although a valiant effort, still has a klunky feel. >> >> Frank > **** > As I have pointed out repeatedly, the reality distortion field that convinces people that > end users have 24/7 broadband access to help is a serious impediment in the design > process. I spend most of my flying time (and I fly at least once a month, more than half > of those flights are > 4 hours, and I rarely have Internet access at my work sites, a week > at a time). The correct model is to ASSUME offline capabilities are required, and in the > fortunate condition where online access is possible, that's cool, but it should not be the > base model for help systems. > joe > **** > Joseph M. Newcomer [MVP] > email: newcomer(a)flounder.com > Web: http://www.flounder.com > MVP Tips: http://www.flounder.com/mvp_tips.htm And when Charter Pipeline (they should be required to put an asterisk by that word) is your ISP, you might as well be in that moving aluminum tube at 30,000 ft., as far connection integrity goes. I think my favorite help fiasco is when help topic shows as "local" and it can't be found anywhere. This is just broken stuff in so many ways. Frank
From: Hector Santos on 5 Mar 2010 17:04
Cmplx80 wrote: > > I think my favorite help fiasco is when help topic shows as "local" and > it can't be found anywhere. This is just broken stuff in so many ways. > I can't stand it. I heard a rumor that MS went back to the *.CHM help for MSDN? True, False or half true? -- HLS |