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From: Paul E. Schoen on 12 Mar 2010 15:17

"Michael Robinson" <nospam(a)billburg.com> wrote in message
news:ifvmn.22115$mn6.12572(a)newsfe07.iad...
>
> "Bob Eld" <nsmontassoc(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:hn8jnh$rsp$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Bret Cahill" <Bret_E_Cahill(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:b3fd7078-e8b8-4f1f-b7ff-d7da0a141a31(a)k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>>> A few years ago I was looking at a minivan with defective ABS and I
>>> turned to an astute ex used car dealer and said incredulously,
>>> "there's no way a big auto company would design a car without any back
>>> up brake system . . ."
>>>
>>> The astute ex used car dealer didn't say a word.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bret Cahill
>>
>>
>> To me it has the ear marks of a in fuel-accelerator computer system
>> problem.
>> It's as though the processor goes into la-la land for no apparent reason
>> into a full, max on failure mode. When the techs look at it, they can't
>> replicate the problem. The processor never does it again, at least while
>> anyone is looking. We've never seen software do that have we? No!
>>
>> But the real problem is Toyota's secrecy, not allowing any third party to
>> examine their documentation even to the point of defying court orders.
>> They
>> have blown smoke up each other's butts with attempted fixes, floor mats
>> and
>> accelerator mechanical fixes but likely to no avail. Failures keep coming
>> and Toyota believes their own propaganda. It's time for an independent,
>> third party look into the problems including Toyota's engineering and
>> documentation without a connection to Toyota but with full openness on
>> their
>> part. Otherwise, maybe we should forbid them from selling in the US until
>> they are more open.
>>
>> The San Diego Prius should be impounded by the TSA and examined by them
>> just
>> as an airplane would be. Toyota's techs should be kept away from it
>> except
>> under TSA supervision. Like before, they aren't likely to find anything
>> wrong or make up something silly like floor mats, drivers big feet or
>> something equally ridiculous. No more Toyota excuses and secrecy.
>>
>
> You've pretty much put my thoughts on this into words.
>
> I've noticed some op-eds and such pointing up the known problem of driver
> error (i.e., panic and press harder on accelerator thinking it's the brake
> pedal).
>
> But here we have a guy standing on the brake with both feet and pulling
> the e-brake too. Something's obviously seriously wrong with the car.
>
> Toyota has a serious mental block on this. Floor mats! How stupid can
> you get. Meanwhile, people die.
>
> About 15 years ago I witnessed a car accelerate out of control in New York
> City, coming up Lafayette Street, cross Astor Place, and slam into a
> construction scaffold. The car was like a missile, the engine was
> absolutely screaming. One pedestrian that didn't get hit by the car was
> seriously injured just from standing NEAR the point of impact. I don't
> know if the people in the car even survived. This stuff is no joke.
>
> If we don't hold the Toyota people's feet to the fire, shame on us.

There was a news story last night about a woman who lost control when she
put her RAV4 in reverse after being involved in a minor fender-bender with a
neighbor's vehicle. The SUV apparently went full throttle and slammed into
her house. She is 70 years old, and it is possible that she might have
panicked, but there were others who witnessed the event. Her vehicle was not
part of the recall, but she had it checked by a Toyota technician. Here is
the story:
http://www.wbaltv.com/news/22813852/detail.html

I am totally in favor of having a separate black box that keeps a record of,
say, the last 60 seconds of vehicle operation before a serious crash is
detected. I don't mind if the police look at the data for the speedometer
and my use of the accelerator, brake, steering, etc., because I don't drive
like a maniac. Of course, it might be expected that one may have exceeded
the speed limit or accelerated quickly trying to avoid an accident, but any
information that helps provide the truth in any investigation should be
welcome by anyone who has nothing to hide.

It is frustrating to hear of long-term criminals who have repeatedly gotten
off on serious offenses because of technicalities. Even if proper procedures
may not have been followed, as long as there was no overt intimidation or
physical harm to the defendent or his property, and the evidence found was
solid, then it should be admitted. If there was a breach of protocol, that
should be a separate crime that might cause the investigators to be charged
and punished. But the punishment for that might just be a fine or temporary
suspension and reeducation about the laws that might have been broken. I'm
sure most law enforcement officers would accept such risk if it would result
in a perp being convicted and sentenced for a crime that was without a doubt
committed.

Paul

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