Wavelength & Frequency experiments for SR
in [Relativity]
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From: Dr. Henri Wilson on 30 Dec 2007 15:44 On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:25:02 -0600, Tom Roberts <tjroberts137(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: >Dr. Henri Wilson wrote: >> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 21:52:19 -0600, Tom Roberts <tjroberts137(a)sbcglobal.net> >> wrote: >>> Consider the operation of a standard lab He-Ne laser. The 3S->2P >>> transition of neon is Doppler broadened to about 1.5 GHz [...] >>> The frequency and wavelength separations of the different longitudinal >>> modes are fully consistent with the speed of light being constant. This >>> implies that for moving Ne atoms, the product of frequency times >>> wavelength for the lasing transition does indeed equal c. This is >>> optical spectroscopy, and these values are known quite accurately. >> >> Oh yeh! > >Yes. > > >>> This example also refutes Henri Wilson's "BaTh", which claims that the >>> wavelength of light emitted from a source is the same in all inertial >>> frames -- for the Doppler-broadened lasing transition to excite multiple >>> longitudinal modes in the mirrors its wavelength MUST vary with speed. >> >> Photon wavelength DOES change during a photon acceleration...that's part of my >> BaTh. > >That's irrelevant. It is the Doppler broadening of the emission line of >neon that matters (remember how a laser works). And the broadening MUST >occur in wavelength, or multiple longitudinal modes could not be within >the effective linewidth of the neon atoms. The longitudinal modes are, >of course, completely determined by the wavelength of the light and the >mirror spacing (N*\lambda = 2*L, where N is some integer, \lambda is the >wavelength of the light, and L is the mirror spacing; for a typical >He-Ne laser, N is about a million). > >This is a simple and direct refutation of your claim that the wavelength >of light emitted from a moving source is independent of its velocity. It >is the movement of the neon atoms relative to the mirrors that makes >their individual emission lines vary in wavelength enough to intersect >multiple longitudinal modes of the mirrors. > > >>> Note that without the Doppler broadening of the lasing transition, He-Ne >>> lasers would be vastly more difficult to set up and get working. >> >> You haven't described the experiment in much detail so I can't comment. > >Just turn on a common lab He-Ne laser and observe the wavelength >spectrum of its output (high resolution is needed). Or look it up in a >good laser textbook (e.g. _Fundamentals_of_Light_Sources_and_Lasers_, by >Mark Csele). Or even online: http://members.misty.com/don/laserhen.htm >(the section on "Longitudinal Modes of Operation"). > >If the wavelength of emitted light were independent of the source >velocity, then the INTRINSIC neon linewidth would be the effective >linewidth of the laser's gas discharge, and a He-Ne laser would have to >have its mirrors aligned precisely so the above condition for >longitudinal modes would lie within the intrinsic linewidth of neon. >That means that just a single longitudinal mode could do that, and one >would need to stabilize the tube holding the mirrors MUCH more carefully >(to keep that mode at the emission line as the tube heats up). The >reason He-Ne lasers are so inexpensive is that such precise alignment >and temperature compensation are not necessary -- in a real He-Ne laser >with a Doppler-broadened linewidth, 3-5 longitudinal modes always >overlap the effective emission line, and as the tube heats up and the >mirrors move apart, the modes drift but there are always 3-5 modes >within the effective linewidth and the laser operates (automatically >hopping modes as they move across the effective emission line). > >While I don't have references sufficiently accurate to quantitatively >answer the original poster's question (does f*\lambda=c for a moving >source?), the simple fact that the Doppler-broadened linewidth overlaps >MULTIPLE longitudinal modes is enough to refute Henri Wilson's claim >that "wavelength is absolute", and thus refute his "BaTh". > > Of course everyone except Henri already knows that > the emitted wavelength varies with source motion. By having to refer to something as obscure and uncertain as this, I can only assume you are becoming quite desperate. Note, my BaTh Sagnac analysis can use either the doppler shifted frequencies in the non-R frame OR constant wavelength.... and get the same result. That in itself proves wavelength is indeed absolute and invariant. >Tom Roberts Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm
From: Androcles on 30 Dec 2007 16:05 "Tom Roberts" <tjroberts137(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:9wQdj.2153$pr6.1499(a)nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com... : Of course everyone except Henri already knows that : the emitted wavelength varies with source motion. : : : Tom Roberts I never imagined finding myself in agreement with you, Roberts, but yes, Wilson is a dork.
From: Androcles on 30 Dec 2007 16:36 "Dr. Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message news:rh0gn3hukujv6ir0ar9e1v9bvq8kmat6pd(a)4ax.com... : Note, my BaTh Sagnac analysis can use either the doppler shifted frequencies in : the non-R frame OR constant wavelength.... and get the same result. That in : itself proves wavelength is indeed absolute and invariant. : That alone proves you are an imbecile that can't count.
From: Jeckyl on 30 Dec 2007 17:50 "Dr. Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message news:rh0gn3hukujv6ir0ar9e1v9bvq8kmat6pd(a)4ax.com... > Note, my BaTh Sagnac analysis ... is wrong
From: Dr. Henri Wilson on 30 Dec 2007 18:28
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 21:36:59 GMT, "Androcles" <Engineer(a)hogwarts.physics_b> wrote: > >"Dr. Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message >news:rh0gn3hukujv6ir0ar9e1v9bvq8kmat6pd(a)4ax.com... > >: Note, my BaTh Sagnac analysis can use either the doppler shifted >frequencies in >: the non-R frame OR constant wavelength.... and get the same result. That >in >: itself proves wavelength is indeed absolute and invariant. >: >That alone proves you are an imbecile that can't count. The only result YOU ever produced was a few empty bottles. Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm |