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From: Kevin Miller on 2 Jan 2010 01:17
Been wanting to redo my vastly out of date web site for ages. One area
that I want to change is the menu. Using a .css based menu is nice in
that it works even for people running noscript plugins. But it's a pain
to update on every page. A javascript menu can be updated in one spot
and the change is global but may not work for everybody.

If you have a website w/javascript, is this much of an issue? Or do you
just blow off the "paranoid" amongst us?

What other options are there?

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller - http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
In a recent survey, 7 out of 10 hard drives preferred Linux
Registered Linux User No: 307357, http://counter.li.org
From: Kevin Nathan on 3 Jan 2010 14:35
On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 21:17:03 -0900
Kevin Miller <atftb2(a)alaska.net> wrote:

>Been wanting to redo my vastly out of date web site for ages. One area
>that I want to change is the menu. Using a .css based menu is nice in
>that it works even for people running noscript plugins. But it's a
>pain to update on every page.
>What other options are there?

As others have said, just make it an external CSS file.

Houghi mentioned taking question to other groups; check the ones here:

comp.infosystems.www.authoring.*

I am following several of them. Very knowledgeable people in them, but
don't ask a javascript question in the html group and so forth. Lurk a
bit in all of those groups and you will soon see on which ones you will
want to concentrate.


--
Kevin Nathan (Arizona, USA)
Linux Potpourri and a.o.l.s. FAQ -- (temporarily offline)

Open standards. Open source. Open minds.
The command line is the front line.
Linux 2.6.31.5-0.1-default
11:59am up 16 days 17:44, 18 users, load average: 0.02, 0.05, 0.06

From: Kevin Miller on 3 Jan 2010 21:28
On 01/01/2010 11:07 PM, houghi wrote:
> Kevin Miller wrote:
>> Been wanting to redo my vastly out of date web site for ages. One area
>> that I want to change is the menu. Using a .css based menu is nice in
>> that it works even for people running noscript plugins. But it's a pain
>> to update on every page.
>
> No, it's not.

It is the way I've been doing it. That's why I asked.


>> A javascript menu can be updated in one spot
>> and the change is global but may not work for everybody.
>
> Same difference
>
>> If you have a website w/javascript, is this much of an issue? Or do you
>> just blow off the "paranoid" amongst us?
>
> I try to avaoid javascript as much as possible.

Me too.

>> What other options are there?
>
> First, best go to a web site design related group. This has absolutely
> nothing to do with openSUSE and not even Linux.

Well, I'll be developing it on openSUSE. And I think my ISP is running
some flavor of LInux. But yeah, strictly speaking it's a bit OT. On
the other hand, half the posts here are threads that have degraded into
flame wars with nothing to do with openSUSE, Linux, or even computers.
Sigh.

> Second, use a language like asp or php that understands include. Look at
> http://houghi.org/making/ how I make a site. I will be talking php for
> the rest, but asp will be able to do the same. If you do not have php at
> your provider, then change providers. I have been working with an
> include since the beginning of times. Well, since I made my first web
> page.
>
> Basicaly you will have a page that will look like:
> <?php
> include '(start.php)';
> ?>
> <h1>The main content</h1>
> <p>And all the rest</p>
> <?php
> include '(end.php)';
> ?>
>
> start.php and end.php qwill have all the things that are the same on all
> the pages, including the menu's. The last line of start.php would most
> likely be "<body>" and the first of end.php "</body>".
>
> Looking at start.php, you can have several things going on there.
> 1) The html headers
> 2) Some blocks
>
> So if you like, you can use include for each of those as well. I
> sometimes use different start.php pages so I can determine what blocks I
> want on a page and which ones I don't. e.g. no blocks on the right.
>
> But again, look at my URL and best ask in a web design related group.

Thanks. Nice tutorial. I took a quick glance at it, and plan on
printing it, comparing it to page source to see how you've enhanced the
basics you describe then going from there. If I have a question or two
can I ping you off list? Some folks get there knickers in a bind if you
email them directly so I figured I'd ask first...

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller - http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
In a recent survey, 7 out of 10 hard drives preferred Linux
Registered Linux User No: 307357, http://counter.li.org
From: Kevin Miller on 3 Jan 2010 21:45
On 01/02/2010 01:38 AM, Jerry wrote:
> Assuming that the .css file is external and linked to in the page
> headers, that means that a change in the .css file will be
> reflected across all pages that are linked to it, local changes
> on a per page base can then be achieved by either a second
> external .css file on that one page, .css in the headers of the
> page or line CSS within the body of the page.

On the web site I've been helping my dad with the .css file is external,
however the menu is in-line as an unordered list. The .css controls the
color and changes on hover, etc. but the list itself isn't in the .css.
To see it in action see http://www.southalaskabnbs.com.


> : Second, use a language like asp or php that understands
> include.
>
> Assuming his server allows this....

One one server that I'll be building and have full control that's not an
issue. On my own page which is hosted by my ISP I don't know. I
emailed support, but they never seem to respond. Maybe they don't know
how to use email. If I don't hear from them in the next day or so I'll
just call their 800 number.

> :
> : Looking at start.php, you can have several things going on
> there.
> : 1) The html headers
>
> That might have dangers should the server spit out a server-side
> scripting error, and in any case the html headers won't change
> that much so could be part of a standard template used as the
> base for all pages with once only changes made at the time of
> authoring the page content. "Server-side" includes and scripts
> can safely be used to 'inject' page specific information within
> the headers but even that needs to be done carefully so that one
> isn't left with, for example, an empty page title field, no .css
> file loaded or perhaps worse still no "Doctype" declaration!

Hmmm. Things I'll have to pay attention to.

> HTH?

Every little bit helps, thanks...

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller - http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
In a recent survey, 7 out of 10 hard drives preferred Linux
Registered Linux User No: 307357, http://counter.li.org
From: Kevin Miller on 3 Jan 2010 21:50
On 01/03/2010 10:35 AM, Kevin Nathan wrote:
> As others have said, just make it an external CSS file.

On the pages I've been doing, it is. Just not yet an optimal menu system.


> Houghi mentioned taking question to other groups; check the ones here:
>
> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.*

Thanks, I'll check those out.


> I am following several of them. Very knowledgeable people in them, but
> don't ask a javascript question in the html group and so forth. Lurk a
> bit in all of those groups and you will soon see on which ones you will
> want to concentrate.

Appreciate the heads up. Funny the things people choose to get in an
uproar over! :-)

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller - http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
In a recent survey, 7 out of 10 hard drives preferred Linux
Registered Linux User No: 307357, http://counter.li.org
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