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From: HardySpicer on 2 May 2010 17:29
On May 3, 1:19 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/2/10 12:20 AM, HardySpicer wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 2, 1:04 pm, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com>  wrote:
> >> On 5/1/10 4:30 PM, HardySpicer wrote:
>
> >>> BIZARRE animal deaths in Powys are being blamed on visitors from outer
> >>> space, UFO experts have claimed.
>
> >>     You are easily fooled Hardy... There are no "UFO experts".
>
> > Really? What exactly is an expert? Somebody who has studied the
> > phenomena for maybe 20 years.
> > That would be an expert and I expect he would know a lot more than the
> > average person.
>
> > What is an expert in Physics? Somebody who has studied for maybe 20
> > odd years in a specialised area.
>
> > Sounds the same. Ditto for a music expert. Get real...and dont' shoot
> > the messenger either...
>
> > Hardy
>
>    You are missing the point, Hardy. There is NO evidence for space
>    visitors. At the heart of physics is this idea of empirical evidence.
>    There is no credible evidence for extraterrestrial visitors. Like I
>    said, you are easily fooled, Hardy.

Actually I have no idea about this particular case other than the
newspaper article but to say there is no evidence for visitors from
space is way off the mark.
There is no hard Scientific evidence in my opinion and if there was I
am sure it would disappear from view pretty quick!
There is evidence of a legal nature ie similar to a court of law -
witness statements going back 100 years or more however which cannot
be ignored.

As for people saying that such travel is impossible, we need only
examine how long we have had our own technology.
Rockets with guidance have been around only since 1944 ish - maybe 80
years and manned flight much less. The furthest we have travelled is
the edge of our solar system and manned only to the moon and back.
In fact we have done pretty well by all accounts in a short span of
time. Assuming mankind will survive, imagine in that autistic mind of
yours what will be possible in 1000 years time and then 1 million
years time. If mankind isn't extinct by then I am sure that we will be
exploring the entire Galaxy and even other Galaxies. To asume that
other evolved creatures cannot do likewise is a little narrow minded.
There is no hard evidence at present though for general public
viewing. Have a look here and see what these ex-military employees
have to say. I would say some could of course be telling less than the
truth - but not all of them all of the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-DHjGNV7Lo

Hardy
From: Terrys on 2 May 2010 20:05
On May 2, 11:28 pm, Benj <bjac...(a)iwaynet.net> wrote:
> On May 2, 9:19 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >    You are missing the point, Hardy. There is NO evidence for space
> >    visitors. At the heart of physics is this idea of empirical evidence.

>
> Ah yes. "Space visitors are impossible"!  I get it.

Somewhere out there, there is a little piggy fooled by the popular
[read:tabloid} `understanding' of global warming, but in no more real
danger from the wolf.
[if that's to obscure for you, google `straw man'.]

I'm not convinced by the neolithic assumption that the vastness of
space-time was created for one speck of dust circleing an average
star, or particularly wedded to the `this hole was specifically made
for this puddle' argument that liquid water is neccessary for
replicating molecules that reproduce with `errors' selected for by
their environment, but nowhere did Sam say it was `impossible'.

He probably doesn't believe the following `observations'

Aliens piloting interstellar craft are so tired when they get here
that they forget to turn of their navigation lights, or need landing
lights.

There exists a race of beings so far in advance of us that the only
way they can communicate is by plaiting straw [[Twitch? circa 1994,
sorry if I got it wrong
but my archives are all over the place]

We are the galaxy's premier supplier of ovine and bovine anuses and
eyelids.

Every major and mid-level country's governments, scientific
establishments and miltary forces are partaking in the only long-term
succesful systemic cover-up in history.

What he did say was that he didn't think there was `credible' evidence
for extraterrestrial visitors. My only beef with Hardy is the
perennial point that `UFO's' are not `IFO's'. There's plenty of
evidence for the first - and always will be.
The second would be exciting.
YMMV.
From: HardySpicer on 2 May 2010 21:44
On May 3, 12:05 pm, Terrys <merryter...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 2, 11:28 pm, Benj <bjac...(a)iwaynet.net> wrote:
>
> > On May 2, 9:19 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >    You are missing the point, Hardy. There is NO evidence for space
> > >    visitors. At the heart of physics is this idea of empirical evidence.
>
> > Ah yes. "Space visitors are impossible"!  I get it.
>
> Somewhere out there, there is a little piggy fooled by the popular
> [read:tabloid} `understanding' of global warming,  but in no more real
> danger from the wolf.
> [if that's to obscure for you, google `straw man'.]
>
> I'm not convinced by the neolithic assumption that the vastness of
> space-time was created for one speck of dust circleing an average
> star, or particularly wedded to the `this hole was specifically made
> for this puddle' argument that liquid water is neccessary for
> replicating molecules that reproduce with `errors' selected for by
> their environment, but nowhere did Sam say it was `impossible'.
>
> He probably doesn't believe the following `observations'
>
> Aliens piloting interstellar craft are so tired when they get here
> that they forget to turn of their navigation lights, or need landing
> lights.
>
an artifact of the propulusion system or maybe they want to be seen.
Or they are man-made.

> There exists a race of beings so far in advance of us that the only
> way they can communicate is by plaiting straw [[Twitch? circa 1994,
> sorry if I got it wrong
>  but my archives are all over the place]
>
Not a good example. A bit like comparing ghosts with UFOs.

> We are the galaxy's premier supplier of ovine and bovine anuses and
> eyelids.
>
> Every major and mid-level country's governments, scientific
> establishments and miltary forces are partaking in the only long-term
> succesful systemic cover-up in history.
>
Not so - only a few governments. Look at France for instance. They
have a policy of openness on UFOs.
Of course France may well have less to loose.

There are numerous sightings by professional pilots and even
Astronauts - radar operators - we could go on and on.
They cannot all be IFOs. Of course there is no doubt that a good many
are.

However, there is no getting away from the fact that we as a race will
eventually be flying around the Galaxy whether it takes 100 or 10,000
years.
This is a certainty and since we evolved in a pretty normal way, then
it is quite conceivable that other life elsewhere has also evolved
before us (and will do so after us).
Some of that life will no doubt have a few million years start on us.
We would be as interesting as us contacting bush-men in the jungle
somewhere. They may find us interesting but not willing to strike up a
conversation. Any race who destroys its own kind must be quite low
down on the evolutionary stage and I would have thought that they
would do best to stay away for their own protection.

Hardy
From: Sam Wormley on 2 May 2010 21:52
On 5/2/10 4:29 PM, HardySpicer wrote:
> Rockets with guidance have been around only since 1944 ish - maybe 80
> years and manned flight much less. The furthest we have travelled is
> the edge of our solar system and manned only to the moon and back.
> In fact we have done pretty well by all accounts in a short span of
> time. Assuming mankind will survive, imagine in that autistic mind of
> yours what will be possible in 1000 years time and then 1 million
> years time.

It is interesting what we have learned about time and space and
spacetime in the last hundred years. Regarding space travel--
http://edu-observatory.org/eo/images/InterstellarTravel.jpg




From: Sam Wormley on 2 May 2010 21:54
On 5/2/10 8:44 PM, HardySpicer wrote:
> There are numerous sightings by professional pilots and even
> Astronauts - radar operators - we could go on and on.
> They cannot all be IFOs.

Of course they can!
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