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From: LD5SZRA on 7 May 2010 16:22 Most probably you won't be able to move to anywhere else; not even on forums because Microsoft hasn't got any plans to open forums for Windows XP and earlier technology. Somebody suggested that you can go to other P2P newsgroups like Google or aioe.org. This again won't be possible because microsoft may force them to close their newsgroups bearing Micro$hit name. The only alternative I can think of is for somebody to organize a group of about 10 individuals to come together and start their own newsgroups to be financed by advertising and volunteers. I am willing to put my name forward for this project provided there are individuals who have some basic knowledge of hosting NNTPs which can be expanded further as time goes by. I am good at programming and developing websites using Java, Javascript and ASP and perhaps some networking skills and SQL servers. that is all I know at present. hth "Pavel A." wrote: > > Dear users of msnews.microsoft.com, > > There are rumors that Microsoft plans to shut down this nntp server. > > See this for example: > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20004109-56.html > > Any thoughts on where we can migrate from here - besides of the web-based > MSDN forums?. > To Google groups, maybe? > > Regards, > -- pa > -- THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. LD5SZRA DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL LD5SZRA OR ITS ASSOCIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, EVEN IF LD5SZRA OR ITS ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES SO THE FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY. Copyright LD5SZRA 2010.
From: Hector Santos on 7 May 2010 18:34 John John - MVP wrote: > > > Hector Santos wrote: >> Ok, first, the microsoft.public.* newsgroups are not usenet. > > Gee, I wonder why Microsoft themselves refer to them as Usenet groups... > > http://www.microsoft.com/communities/guide/newsgroupfaq.mspx Unfortunately, another case of Microsoft creating user confusion in this regard. Microsoft.public.* are *not* part of the usenet backbone newsgroup listing nor backbone stream. Check it out yourself. If you have access to a major ISP where you have a high trunk line backwidth such as a T1 or T3, you will see that the usenet feed newsgroup listing does not include microsoft.public.* If a smaller ISP is showing microsoft.public.*, then they are directly or indirectly going to Microsoft servers and are MERGING it with the usenet listing. But they are two different sources of feeds. >> #2, you won't have MS server to post, and if you found another, you >> don't know if Google will be pulling from it or that your Serer will >> be posting to GOOGLE. > > People post to the groups from all kinds of different servers, when the > Microsoft servers are down these other servers still synchronize between > themselves without any problem and these folks who post on other servers > can still post and read without the intermediary of Microsoft servers. > We have often seen this in the past when outages of a few hours or more > at the Microsoft servers have happened and some of us use other servers > to keep on posting, when the Microsoft servers come back only line they > then "catch-up" and then all the posts show up many hours latter on > these servers. This is obvious enough when you use non Microsoft > servers to read the posts in Microsoft groups, all kinds of posts which > have not made it to the MS servers, or posts which have been removed > from the MS servers are on the other servers for all to see and read. All that will change one MS pulls the plug from the wall. While you might find another site that keeps the newsgroups and they still remain relatively active, that is only because the site itself have become the MAIN source for others to feed into - a large part of the chain. But those chains that feed off Microsoft only are lost unless they feed into someone else. -- HLS
From: Hector Santos on 7 May 2010 18:45 LD5SZRA wrote: > Most probably you won't be able to move to anywhere else; not even > on forums because Microsoft hasn't got any plans to open forums > for Windows XP and earlier technology. Somebody suggested that > you can go to other P2P newsgroups like Google or aioe.org. This > again won't be possible because microsoft may force them to close > their newsgroups bearing Micro$hit name. > > The only alternative I can think of is for somebody to organize a > group of about 10 individuals to come together and start their own > newsgroups to be financed by advertising and volunteers. I am > willing to put my name forward for this project provided there are > individuals who have some basic knowledge of hosting NNTPs which > can be expanded further as time goes by. I am good at programming > and developing websites using Java, Javascript and ASP and perhaps > some networking skills and SQL servers. that is all I know at > present. Yes, I agree. This would be a good idea but it starts with a new "main source" or feed coordination. There will be a lot of nodes lost once the MS NNTP servers are shut off and they need to be told who they can link up to. How successful that all be, might be another thing. You need a "ground zero" whether its one site or a group of sites as a whole - they all need to know they can feed off each other. Once that is established, then the rest of the world can feed of them. That or someone at Microsoft "donates" the name sake "microsoft.public.*" to the backbone usenet feed to it becomes part of it the usenet listing. The point? When a NNTP client issues the command at any of the "New Feeds": NEWSGROUP the NNTP SERVER will show: microsoft.public.* as part of the result. -- HLS
From: Lem on 7 May 2010 19:07 Hector Santos wrote: <snip> > > Check it out yourself. If you have access to a major ISP where you have > a high trunk line backwidth such as a T1 or T3, you will see that the > usenet feed newsgroup listing does not include microsoft.public.* > > If a smaller ISP is showing microsoft.public.*, then they are directly > or indirectly going to Microsoft servers and are MERGING it with the > usenet listing. But they are two different sources of feeds. > <snip> I have no expertise at all in newsgroup management, but just to inject a fact into all of this speculation, Earthlink (which I would characterize as a "major ISP") includes the microsoft.public.* groups on its news servers. Whether it will continue to do so after Microsoft discontinues its support for the newsgroups is, of course, is another story. -- Lem Apollo 11 - 40 years ago: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/apollo/40th/index.html
From: John John - MVP on 7 May 2010 20:27
Hector Santos wrote: > John John - MVP wrote: > >> >> >> Hector Santos wrote: >>> Ok, first, the microsoft.public.* newsgroups are not usenet. >> >> Gee, I wonder why Microsoft themselves refer to them as Usenet groups... >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/communities/guide/newsgroupfaq.mspx > > > Unfortunately, another case of Microsoft creating user confusion in this > regard. > > Microsoft.public.* are *not* part of the usenet backbone newsgroup > listing nor backbone stream. > > Check it out yourself. If you have access to a major ISP where you have > a high trunk line backwidth such as a T1 or T3, you will see that the > usenet feed newsgroup listing does not include microsoft.public.* > > If a smaller ISP is showing microsoft.public.*, then they are directly > or indirectly going to Microsoft servers and are MERGING it with the > usenet listing. But they are two different sources of feeds. > >>> #2, you won't have MS server to post, and if you found another, you >>> don't know if Google will be pulling from it or that your Serer will >>> be posting to GOOGLE. >> >> People post to the groups from all kinds of different servers, when >> the Microsoft servers are down these other servers still synchronize >> between themselves without any problem and these folks who post on >> other servers can still post and read without the intermediary of >> Microsoft servers. We have often seen this in the past when outages of >> a few hours or more at the Microsoft servers have happened and some of >> us use other servers to keep on posting, when the Microsoft servers >> come back only line they then "catch-up" and then all the posts show >> up many hours latter on these servers. This is obvious enough when >> you use non Microsoft servers to read the posts in Microsoft groups, >> all kinds of posts which have not made it to the MS servers, or posts >> which have been removed from the MS servers are on the other servers >> for all to see and read. > > All that will change one MS pulls the plug from the wall. > > While you might find another site that keeps the newsgroups and they > still remain relatively active, that is only because the site itself > have become the MAIN source for others to feed into - a large part of > the chain. But those chains that feed off Microsoft only are lost > unless they feed into someone else. The groups are on *many* usenet servers, majors like Giganews as well as small guys like aioe carry them. If these guys refuse to honor the remove group notices the groups will continue to exist on these servers and peerage will continue between any and all who decide to keep on carrying the groups. There is no denying that a majority of the posts originates from the Microsoft servers and that without these servers the groups may or will probably wither and die but the death will not be because Microsoft servers are not there to act as a peerage "hub". John |