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From: Hector Santos on 8 May 2010 08:36 John John - MVP wrote: > Hector Santos wrote: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet >> >> Looks like a star topology > > How can you look at a portion of the network, a partial sketch of 3 > servers amongst thousands, and declare this to be a star network? Maybe > you should have read instead of just looking at pictures: > > "One notable difference between a BBS or web forum and Usenet is the > absence of a central server and dedicated administrator. Usenet is > distributed among a large, constantly changing conglomeration of servers > that store and forward messages to one another. These servers are > loosely connected in a variable mesh. This is similar to the complex > transportation plan of a city. There are multiple ways to get to any > point in the city. If one of those ways is blocked for some reason, > there is always another avenue available to get there. In this manner, > the User Network or Usenet allows newsgroup postings to reach their many > destinations robustly." > > This is what a star network looks like: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_network > > It is completely unsuitable for Usenet robustness, as mentioned in the > article: > > "The primary disadvantage of a star topology is the high dependence of > the system on the functioning of the central hub. While the failure of > an individual link only results in the isolation of a single node, the > failure of the central hub renders the network inoperable, immediately > isolating all nodes. The performance and scalability of the network also > depend on the capabilities of the hub." Whats funny about this is that you really don't know what it means because you probably never operated or hosted a server. I'll try to explain it to you: Its relative - think of yourself as a HOST operator. When you first install whatever hosting software you have, it begins EMPTY! Now YOU, as a HUMAN have to decide where you will get your feeds for whatever information you wish to provide for your users and/or LOCALLY HOSTED host operator. Old school operators will understand terms like users as POINTS HOST-JOHN <---> USER-A The key point is that the USER is not hosting anyone else. But maybe you are going to like to host other sites, free or fee or whatever: HOST-JOHN <---> USER-A | HOST-BIZ-CUSTOMER Relative to USER-A and the BIZ customer, YOUR are their HUB and its an the form of a STAR. In the old days, it was more of a locality, distance issue simply because of the networking. But the internet allows you to go to other HUBs now who offer the same feeds that you wanted. There are MANY reasons, seriously, why users and nodes go to different sources or multiple different sources. Assuming you have access to anyone you are working with, its possible to download form one host and upload to another. Its akin to reading on this server and for some reason, you decide to post a reply via google or some other site. But keep in mind that USER and a HOST are different when it comes to redundancy and duplicity. If a HOST is going to go different multiple HOST for the same feeds, the NNTP protocol has logic to check for dupes. The point is today, you don't even think about it anymore. The hardware, the bandwidth and software are that good to completely automated it. It is still overhead, but its not something that was a BIG BIG concern in the past where FEEDS are large and expensive. The dupes where still there but if there was a real big issue, someone traced it down to the problem node. Lets put it this way, if you became an ISP - you will think STAR network relative to yourself; you will sell services to NODES off your hub - users and other hosting sites. You normally will not have any control what this nodes will do themselves, but if one of your nodes where getting duplicate feeds from someone else, and you UPLOADED it to the hub, do you think they will accept it? -- HLS
From: John John - MVP on 8 May 2010 09:04 Hector Santos wrote: > John John - MVP wrote: > >> Hector Santos wrote: > >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet >>> >>> Looks like a star topology >> >> How can you look at a portion of the network, a partial sketch of 3 >> servers amongst thousands, and declare this to be a star network? >> Maybe you should have read instead of just looking at pictures: > > > As I stated in the beginning of your onslaught: > > A mesh is just a form of a star network. Sheesh, now you are trying to backpeddle! Read here: http://www.myreader.co.uk/msg/12534.aspx "Although the UK Network may once have been a star network, this is no longer the case. There are many news servers each of which has multiple connections to others forming a mesh-like network. There are no central sites in a position to control what comes in and out of the network as a whole." It's the same thing worldwide, trying to imply that the Usenet is a star network in an effort to bolster your claim that the MS servers are a mandatory and necessary "hub" in the distribution of the microsoft.* hierarchy is lame to say the least! I'm done with this thread, good bye! John
From: Hector Santos on 8 May 2010 09:32 John John - MVP wrote: > Hector Santos wrote: >> John John - MVP wrote: >> >>> Hector Santos wrote: >> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet >>>> >>>> Looks like a star topology >>> >>> How can you look at a portion of the network, a partial sketch of 3 >>> servers amongst thousands, and declare this to be a star network? >>> Maybe you should have read instead of just looking at pictures: >> >> >> As I stated in the beginning of your onslaught: >> >> A mesh is just a form of a star network. > > Sheesh, now you are trying to backpeddle! Read here: > http://www.myreader.co.uk/msg/12534.aspx > > "Although the UK Network may once have been a star network, this is no > longer the case. There are many news servers each of which has multiple > connections to others forming a mesh-like network. There are no central > sites in a position to control what comes in and out of the network as a > whole." > > It's the same thing worldwide, trying to imply that the Usenet is a star > network in an effort to bolster your claim that the MS servers are a > mandatory and necessary "hub" in the distribution of the microsoft.* > hierarchy is lame to say the least! > > I'm done with this thread, good bye! You're right, you should because you twisted words to suit whatever purpose you had here. To indicate that me referencing a picture of "three" nodes in a usenet network is not representative of the "thousands" of nodes in the network is ludicrous and a lame attempt of trolling for an nonsense argument. The above does not change the fact that a node relative to itself operates like a star and as I stated in my last post, you have no control of what your nodes and points off your server will do. In other words, you don't need to go to a main hub to get your feeds. That still doesn't eliminate the idea each node itself operates as a star. What? You think you can just post in UK node and it will magically appear in some far distance USA node without some form of organized uplink/downlink transport system? Are you broadcasting by posting the article at different servers crossing your fingers that at least ONE will make and the others will by rejected as DUPES? And again, unless you UNDERSTAND the intricacies of developing hosting software especially for all hosting operationally needs when it comes to distribution, then yes, you should say good bye and shut up. -- HLS
From: Paul Attryde on 8 May 2010 16:42 Pavel A. wrote: > Dear users of msnews.microsoft.com, > > There are rumors that Microsoft plans to shut down this nntp server. > > See this for example: > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20004109-56.html > > Any thoughts on where we can migrate from here - besides of the > web-based MSDN forums?. > To Google groups, maybe? Personally I signed up for an account at OSROnline. They have an NNTP version of their mailing lists at lists.osr.com hth somebody, Paul
From: Maxim S. Shatskih on 9 May 2010 16:03
> Personally I signed up for an account at OSROnline. They > have an NNTP version of their mailing lists at lists.osr.com This is what I'm using for 8 years or so. -- Maxim S. Shatskih Windows DDK MVP maxim(a)storagecraft.com http://www.storagecraft.com |