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From: Hector Santos on 7 May 2010 20:31 John John - MVP wrote: > Hector Santos wrote: >> John John - MVP wrote: >> >> All that will change one MS pulls the plug from the wall. >> >> While you might find another site that keeps the newsgroups and they >> still remain relatively active, that is only because the site itself >> have become the MAIN source for others to feed into - a large part of >> the chain. But those chains that feed off Microsoft only are lost >> unless they feed into someone else. > > The groups are on *many* usenet servers, majors like Giganews as well as > small guys like aioe carry them. If these guys refuse to honor the > remove group notices the groups will continue to exist on these servers > and peerage will continue between any and all who decide to keep on > carrying the groups. There is no denying that a majority of the posts > originates from the Microsoft servers and that without these servers the > groups may or will probably wither and die but the death will not be > because Microsoft servers are not there to act as a peerage "hub". Right, the death will be relative to the users of where they decide to reconnect. The fact is that many sites and end users use msnews.microsoft.com as their site feed and now they will need to go to other sites. The issue is that those other sites might also had been using Microsoft. So sure, they will need to change to new site so that a link won't be broken. As long as there remain a common list of newsgroups available, and it includes microsoft.*, its all good as far as getting it going. -- HLS
From: Hector Santos on 7 May 2010 20:44 Just wish to note the actually Live ID authentication process is internally done over SSL. Hector Santos wrote: > Yes, I did noticed that, and AFAICT, the REST requests are all HTTP. > > Note: the correct url is: > http://services.social.microsoft.com/forumsServicePreview/ForumsService.svc > > This is a primitive 3rd party program. The author seems to be new at > communications requirements. It uses the Live ID Framework Client SDK > for this. > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb404791.aspx > > And it comes with a C# example illustrating the authentication. > > For me, since my live id account is a junk account anyway, I don't worry > about it - although they are beginning to force me to use it more now. > -- HLS
From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard on 7 May 2010 20:48 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> <blockquote cite="mid:E124E48D-6066-4D35-9AC0-4837D75CA90C(a)microsoft.com" type="cite"> <p>There are rumors that Microsoft plans to shut down this nntp server. </p> </blockquote> <p>Ahem! "This NNTP server" is a phrase that means different things to different people. This is Usenet, remember. There <em>isn't</em> just one node. There are thousands of them. Microsoft has no plans to shut down <em>my</em> Usenet node, which carries this and several other newsgroups in the <code>microsoft.*</code> hierarchy. It couldn't do so even if it wanted to. It's my node, not Microsoft's.</p> </body> </html>
From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard on 7 May 2010 20:55 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> <blockquote cite="mid:uSO8lri7KHA.1888(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl" type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite"> <p>Gee, I wonder why Microsoft themselves refer to them as Usenet groups...</p> </blockquote> <p>This is, as Hector correctly told us, "Microsoft's Usenet" :-)</p> </blockquote> <p>No. It's just Usenet. It's a <code>microsoft.*</code> hierarchy of newsgroups, but that doesn't make it owned, or run, by Microsoft. Much of what M. Santos is writing in this thread about star networks, hubs, "backbone listings", and so forth is just complete unadulterated twaddle. The statements about "owners of newsgroups" are more of the same, alas.<br> </p> <p>Of course, the fact that this is Usenet is almost certainly part of the problem for Microsoft. It has no control. It was a problem for JP Software with the <code>comp.os.msdos.4dos</code> newsgroup years ago, when it pulled out of Usenet and tried to get everyone to instead come to WWW-based forums that it had full control over. This is Usenet. There isn't a central authority.</p> <blockquote cite="mid:uSO8lri7KHA.1888(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl" type="cite"> <p>Usenet technically, but is not set up to be the part of the public Usenet.</p> </blockquote> <p>Actually, that's exactly what it <em>is</em> set up to be. Otherwise I wouldn't have seen your message and you wouldn't be seeing this message of mine. Don't conflate the Big 8 with Usenet.</p> </body> </html>
From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard on 7 May 2010 21:03
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> <blockquote cite="mid:%23WpUG5e7KHA.3964(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl" type="cite"> <p>I share concerns expressed by Hector Santos, [...]</p> </blockquote> <p>You shouldn't. Hector Santos is talking rubbish. Again.<br> </p> <blockquote cite="mid:%23WpUG5e7KHA.3964(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl" type="cite"> <p>The distributed and free Usenet has its merits, [...]</p> </blockquote> <p>... and is how many people have been accessing these newsgroups for many years, including anyone posting from Google Groups. This is Usenet, and these are Usenet newsgroups.<br> </p> <blockquote cite="mid:%23WpUG5e7KHA.3964(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl" type="cite"> <p>If we can continue to use newsreaders rather than web interface (with all due respect to AJAX....) and still conect to the central MS server, then this bridge indeed looks like a good solution for me. </p> </blockquote> <p id="line1">You're still making the fundamental mistake of thinking that there's a "central server". Ignore the Sanotosisms. Xyr description of what happens is wrong on about six or seven different counts. Listen to Jochen Kalmbach. Xe has far more clue, here. Here's some irony for you: If you did what M. Santos said to do and went to your ISP and looked, you'll probably find that (presuming that it actually runs a Usenet node at all, of course) your ISP does, indeed, carry the entire <code>microsoft.*</code> newsgroup hierarchy, and you could have obtained it from your ISP's Usenet node all along. <br> </p> <p id="line1">Most commercial Usenet nodes run by ISPs have, historically, carried many of these big non-Big8 newsgroup hierarchies. Usenet isn't just, and never has been, the Big 8. The question is whether ISPs will continue to carry the <code>microsoft.*</code> hierarchy in the future. It's more likely, nowadays, given the trend of recent years, that they'll just discontinue Usenet service outright than fiddle with adjusting a few lines in active files for one hierarchy, to be blunt.<br> </p> </body> </html> |