Where is balance? -- Re: Academic priorities
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From: jmfbahciv on 1 May 2005 06:36 In article <OpWdndY2Se6aOe7fRVn-rA(a)giganews.com>, "Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary(a)msn.com> wrote: ><jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message news:e6mdnTdKkqujGu7fRVn-1Q(a)rcn.net... >> In article <3dhej6F6tatsaU1(a)individual.net>, >> Steve Richfie1d <Steve(a)NOSPAM.smart-life.net> wrote: >> <snip> >> >> > ... If only I could have found more math-intensive >> >real-world problems for them to work on. >> >> You have got to be kidding. You can't help but trip over >> tons of real-world problems. > >I don't know about that. How many real-world problems >will a teenager encounter >that require anything beyond basic math skills? <snip> Reread what he said. Steve said that _he_ couldn't find real world problems for his kids. I don't expect the kids to find them, but he sure could have, especially if he was so hot at math. <sheesh> To have somebody learn something without examples is useless, and this includes pure theory. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
From: Bill Leary on 1 May 2005 09:10 <jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message news:pcydnR8gjrM7UOnfRVn-gg(a)rcn.net... > In article <OpWdndY2Se6aOe7fRVn-rA(a)giganews.com>, > "Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary(a)msn.com> wrote: > ><jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message > news:e6mdnTdKkqujGu7fRVn-1Q(a)rcn.net... > >> In article <3dhej6F6tatsaU1(a)individual.net>, > >> Steve Richfie1d <Steve(a)NOSPAM.smart-life.net> wrote: > >> <snip> > >> > >> > ... If only I could have found more math-intensive > >> >real-world problems for them to work on. > >> > >> You have got to be kidding. You can't help but trip over > >> tons of real-world problems. > > > >I don't know about that. How many real-world problems > >will a teenager encounter > >that require anything beyond basic math skills? > <snip> > > Reread what he said. Steve said that _he_ couldn't find > real world problems for his kids. I saw that. The context was learning by things they encountered. Using that method, he'd have to find examples that THE KIDS would encounter as they went along. That is, see them encounter some issue, then help them learn from it. In that context there aren't many situations a kid will run across in their normal lives which will require anything but rather basic math skills. > I don't expect the kids > to find them, but he sure could have, especially if he > was so hot at math. I don't think so. I've raised three now, and the number of cases where they had to do anything beyond very basic math (usually money related) before they got into their twenties approaches zero. The few cases where they did were school assignment related. > <sheesh> To have somebody learn something without examples > is useless, and this includes pure theory. He was using examples. The ones they encountered day-to-day. - Bill
From: jmfbahciv on 1 May 2005 07:49 In article <7cqdnYVvCdkOTunfRVn-jA(a)giganews.com>, "Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary(a)msn.com> wrote: ><jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message news:pcydnR8gjrM7UOnfRVn-gg(a)rcn.net... >> In article <OpWdndY2Se6aOe7fRVn-rA(a)giganews.com>, >> "Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary(a)msn.com> wrote: >> ><jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message >> news:e6mdnTdKkqujGu7fRVn-1Q(a)rcn.net... >> >> In article <3dhej6F6tatsaU1(a)individual.net>, >> >> Steve Richfie1d <Steve(a)NOSPAM.smart-life.net> wrote: >> >> <snip> >> >> >> >> > ... If only I could have found more math-intensive >> >> >real-world problems for them to work on. >> >> >> >> You have got to be kidding. You can't help but trip over >> >> tons of real-world problems. >> > >> >I don't know about that. How many real-world problems >> >will a teenager encounter >> >that require anything beyond basic math skills? >> <snip> >> >> Reread what he said. Steve said that _he_ couldn't find >> real world problems for his kids. > >I saw that. The context was learning by things they encountered. Exactly. The range of knowledge they're going to be exposed to is a minimum. My whole point is that it should be a maximum so they have a list of things they do not know. The knowledge that gets lost is all the knowledge that people don't know about. The knowledge has no caretakes and nobody to hand it down from. GAG! That's an awful sentence. >.... Using that >method, he'd have to find examples that THE KIDS would encounter as they went >along. NO. At grade school level, sure. But not as pre-college training. > .. That is, see them encounter some issue, then help them learn from it. >In that context there aren't many situations a kid will run across in their >normal lives which will require anything but rather basic math skills. EXACTLY!!! That is my point. Go reread that 3000-post long thread we just finished. > >> I don't expect the kids >> to find them, but he sure could have, especially if he >> was so hot at math. > >I don't think so. I've raised three now, and the number of cases where they had >to do anything beyond very basic math (usually money related) before they got >into their twenties approaches zero. The few cases where they did were school >assignment related. EXACTLY. His kids are home-schooled so they didn't get the sniffs that your kids got through school assignments. > >> <sheesh> To have somebody learn something without examples >> is useless, and this includes pure theory. > >He was using examples. The ones they encountered day-to-day. And he limited their education severely. One of the problems with home-schooling is that these kids are limited to the biases, beliefs, and knowledge of parents and are never exposed to other kinds of thinking, experience and knowhow. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
From: Roland Hutchinson on 1 May 2005 10:17 Bill Leary wrote: > <jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message > news:pcydnR8gjrM7UOnfRVn-gg(a)rcn.net... >> In article <OpWdndY2Se6aOe7fRVn-rA(a)giganews.com>, > I don't think so. I've raised three now, and the number of cases where > they had to do anything beyond very basic math (usually money related) > before they got > into their twenties approaches zero. The few cases where they did were > school assignment related. > >> <sheesh> To have somebody learn something without examples >> is useless, and this includes pure theory. > > He was using examples. The ones they encountered day-to-day Obviously if you want your kids to lean calculus and physics, you should move to a farm or someplace, where the environment is rich in leaking conical storage tanks, falling anvils, populations of hawks and rabbits in dynamic equilibrium, tractors vainly but heroically struggling against the coriolis force to plow true north-south running furrows, etc. -- Roland HutchinsonýýýýýýýýýýýýýýWillýplayýviolaýdaýgambaýforýfood. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam.ýýIfýyourýmessageýlooksýlikeýspamýIýmayýnotýseeýit.
From: Bill Leary on 1 May 2005 11:01
"Roland Hutchinson" <my.spamtrap(a)verizon.net> wrote in message news:ry5de.3130$c86.2761(a)trndny09... > Bill Leary wrote: > > He was using examples. The ones they encountered day-to-day > > Obviously if you want your kids to lean calculus and physics, you should > move to a farm or someplace, where the environment is rich in leaking > conical storage tanks, falling anvils, populations of hawks and rabbits in > dynamic equilibrium, tractors vainly but heroically struggling against the > coriolis force to plow true north-south running furrows, etc. Hmmm. Sure, but only if you need to work the math to come up with solutions to the problems these presented. The "solutions" to most of these problems, in a day-to-day way, are usually non-math oriented. When our water tank developed a leak a few years back, my solution was to make sure the water found it's way into the cellar drain, and make plans to replace it. The last time I dealt with falling heavy objects (wood in a lumber yard) the solution was to not be where it was falling. I've not personally dealt with anything relevant to the other two, though I have studied population growth to some extent. And, when I did so, I learned how to read the reports and check the math. But then, I learned out to learn. I just which I'd learned that in school rather than being forced to pick it up later. - Bill |