Why only 4.6MP?
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From: Ray Fischer on 23 Feb 2010 23:01 Alfred Molon <alfred_molon(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >Is there any reason why Sigma won't increase the pixel count in its line >of Foveon DSLRs? I've been wondering if the technology hasn't hit its resolution limit. Consider that oblique lights rays could, in theory, travel through more than one photosite if they're stacked too high and narrow. You could get the red of one sensor and the blue of an adjacent, and the higher the density the more it's a problem. The color distortion would increase towards the edges and would be exceedingly diffocult to correct in software since the angle of light rays would depend upon the lens used. Or it could be simply that they're not making enough money because the cameras aren't very good. -- Ray Fischer rfischer(a)sonic.net
From: nospam on 23 Feb 2010 23:33 In article <4b84a48e$0$1640$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net>, Ray Fischer <rfischer(a)sonic.net> wrote: > >Is there any reason why Sigma won't increase the pixel count in its line > >of Foveon DSLRs? > > I've been wondering if the technology hasn't hit its resolution limit. foveon sensors are complex and hard to fabricate, not to mention the rest of the system. they might be able to go a little higher or maybe even a sensor that's a little bigger, but not by a whole lot. the 1.7x crop is not because someone thought smaller was a good idea and forget full frame foveon any time soon, if ever. > Consider that oblique lights rays could, in theory, travel through > more than one photosite if they're stacked too high and narrow. > You could get the red of one sensor and the blue of an adjacent, and > the higher the density the more it's a problem. The color distortion > would increase towards the edges and would be exceedingly diffocult to > correct in software since the angle of light rays would depend upon > the lens used. it's not that much of a problem. the depth is only a couple of microns over an approximately 8 micron pixel, not to mention the refractive index of silicon, and if you look at the patents, the layers are actually concentric rings (gotta get the wiring up to the surface somehow), so the bottom and middle layers are actually a bit wider than the top layer. however, the dichroic infrared cut filter that they use does have an angle of incidence issue. the dp1 had green corners until it was supposedly 'fixed' in firmware. > Or it could be simply that they're not making enough money because the > cameras aren't very good. foveon was on the verge of bankruptcy before sigma bailed them out and in an interview from this year's pma, sigma claims they're working on foveon sensors for 'high end cameras.' *that* is going to be a train wreck if ever there was one and the sd15 is shaping up to be another wreck too. sigma is losing huge amounts of money with this, and at some point, they've got to stop the hemorrhaging.
From: Alfred Molon on 24 Feb 2010 01:42 In article <hm1act$ace$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, ntotrr(a)optonline.net says... > Check the results of DP2, you'll see that the > resoution stands up well to some of the current 4/3 cameras. Current 4/3 cameras have 12MP and the 4.6MP of the Foveon should be on the same level of a 7MP Bayer sensor camera, but not more than that. If Foveon brought out a 10MP model they would be competitive. -- Alfred Molon ------------------------------ Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
From: Pete Stavrakoglou on 24 Feb 2010 08:04 "Alfred Molon" <alfred_molon(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:MPG.25eee8cf5471cc2598c230(a)news.supernews.com... > In article <hm1act$ace$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, > ntotrr(a)optonline.net says... >> Check the results of DP2, you'll see that the >> resoution stands up well to some of the current 4/3 cameras. > > Current 4/3 cameras have 12MP and the 4.6MP of the Foveon should be on > the same level of a 7MP Bayer sensor camera, but not more than that. If > Foveon brought out a 10MP model they would be competitive. > -- > > Alfred Molon > ------------------------------ > Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ > http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site I diasgree. The older 3.4 MP Foveon was on par with 6 MP, some say 8 MP cameras. The current sensor is on the same level as a 10 - 12 MP sensors.
From: Pete Stavrakoglou on 24 Feb 2010 08:06
"Bruce" <docnews2011(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:dsi8o5tjifrs4n4buro2v89b7q60gkkol5(a)4ax.com... > On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:42:37 -0500, "Pete Stavrakoglou" > <ntotrr(a)optonline.net> wrote: >>"Bruce" <docnews2011(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Because the amount of image information collected is three times the >>> nominal resolution of the sensor. At each pixel position there are >>> red, blue and green receptors, each on a different layer. The result >>> is that the Foveon sensor collects the same amount of information as a >>> 14.2 MP Bayer pattern sensor. >>> >>> It is fairly widely recognised that the Foveon sensor delivers much >>> the same image quality as a 12 MP Bayer sensor. >>> >>> Unfortunately, the low sales of Sigma DSLRs and point and shoot >>> cameras using the Foveon sensor probably mean that there isn't enough >>> profit for Foveon to re-invest in new products. That's a pity, as the >>> sensor shows some real promise. >> >>I don't know that I'd agree that it is up to par for a 12 MP Bayer. > > > You're welcome to your personal opinion. I don't have an opinion > because I haven't ever tested one against 12 MP opposition. But there > is a general agreement among people who have done such tests that it > is competitive. > > I'm more inclined to respect their consensus rather than the > uninformed and biased personal opinion of one individual. Uninformed? What is your basis for saying that, the fact that I've been using Sigma DSLRs for some time now? > > >>Since Foveon is owned >>by Sigma, it is more like saying that there isn't profit for Sigma to >>re-invest in new products. That, according to Sigma, is not the case as >>they are working on new sensors. > > > We have been hearing that for years now. The new sensors have yet to > appear. > > >>The sensor shows more than promise, if >>they can take care of the noise issue at high ISO then they will overcome >>a >>huge hurdle. > > > Unlikely, given the low sales of the current Foveon sensors. > > |