Will PHP ever "grow up" and have threading?
in [General]
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From: Robert Cummings on 24 Mar 2010 09:14 Rene Veerman wrote: > On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: > >> By advocating that thread support does not belong in PHP, I am in no way >> determining what you (or anyone else) may or may not do. You are a >> free individual and free to choose the programming language and >> paradigm that is best suited to your purposes. > > right! that's saying "you're free to leave behind the tool you've > chosen for another one, because really, that tool should not start to > support things that i dont happen to have a use for." Are you saying you are not free? You are free to do so much in this world, all it takes is backbone to make the choice sometimes. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP
From: Robert Cummings on 24 Mar 2010 09:16 Rene Veerman wrote: > On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: >> Rene Veerman wrote: >> >>> popular : facebook youtube etc >>> >> Rene, I must be missing something here. That sort of size implies >> millions in advertising revenue, so why are we discussing how much >> performance we can squeeze out of a single box? I mean, I'm all for >> efficient use of system resources, but if I have a semi-scalable >> application, it's a lot easier just getting another box than trying to >> change the implementation language. OTOH, if my design is not >> scalable, it's probably also easier to redo it than trying to change >> the implementation language. > > again: > a) you're determining the contents of my toolset, without it affecting > you at all. the way you want it php will degrade into a toy language. > b) i will aim for all possible decreases in development time and > operating costs during, not only in the grow phase but also in hard > economic times. any business person knows why. > >>> and you're still trying to impose a toolset on me. >> I didn't think I was - you're the one who seem to be fixed on PHP as the >> only solution, and advocating that it be enhanced to suit your >> purposes. > > no, php is just my toolset of choice, and i think it should grow with > the times and support threading and shared memory. > maybe even a few cool features to enable use-as-a-cloud. Why are you imposing a toolset on the developers of PHP? Are you even subscribed to internals? Have you even thought of creating a patch? It's one thing to debate the merits of a tool, it's another to insist that it be added because you think php needs to "grow up". Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP
From: Robert Cummings on 24 Mar 2010 09:18 Rene Veerman wrote: > exactly. the knock-on problems you mentioned are well solved and well > documented. > realtime programmers using threads have to get their heads around it > on their first realtime project. > > i don't like doing my code in c(++), or worse; having to interface > between c(++) and php. > i chose php because my code can stay close to simple english that way. > what you're suggesting is highly intrusive in my work-style, one that > you're not affected by at all. > in fact if you make things more difficult for me, i have less time to > release opensource code of my own. Someone call a Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah-mbulance! Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP
From: Robert Cummings on 24 Mar 2010 09:20 Per Jessen wrote: > Rene Veerman wrote: > >> again: >> a) you're determining the contents of my toolset, without it affecting >> you at all. the way you want it php will degrade into a toy language. > > Rene, it seems to me that you and I are advocating two opposite > positions on the topic of threading in PHP, so aren't we both trying to > determine the contents of each others toolset? *bingo* It should be a debate about the merits of each position. Not a pissing contest. >> b) i will aim for all possible decreases in development time and >> operating costs during, not only in the grow phase but also in hard >> economic times. any business person knows why. > > Given that the lifetime effort (=cost) of any software project is > divided into 25% development and 75% maintenance, you really ought to > focus on the latter. If you want more performance at a minimal cost, > surely you should opt to write in a compiled language where you'll get > far more bang for the buck. Oh no, now you're suggesting he change his management focus :) Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP
From: Robert Cummings on 24 Mar 2010 09:22
Rene Veerman wrote: > On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: >> Rene Veerman wrote: >> >>> again: >>> a) you're determining the contents of my toolset, without it affecting >>> you at all. the way you want it php will degrade into a toy language. >> Rene, it seems to me that you and I are advocating two opposite >> positions on the topic of threading in PHP, so aren't we both trying to >> determine the contents of each others toolset? >> > > Per: that's EXACTLY the point. > You are determining it for me, i'm not for you. > Simply because you dont have to use the language features you atm > think you don't need in php. Actually, no. You are determine aspects of the toolset as it stands. To add threading is not a benign additon because we can choose to use it or not. If added it would affect the future irrevocably since undoubtedly we would need to maintain someone's code that contains threads because they didn't understand the shared nothing nature of PHP. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP |