Will PHP ever "grow up" and have threading?
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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Hans_=C3=85hlin?= on 24 Mar 2010 11:04 2010/3/24 Rene Veerman <rene7705(a)gmail.com>: > yea right.. > > i really want to keep my code base in 1 language, because that > simplifies everything later on imo. > you people, who are against the evolotion of php towards cloud > computing, would force me to do mixed-languages projects or even > rewrite large sections of my codebase if as i want, i keep my codebase > in 1 language. > > maybe now you understand why i'm so pissed off with you know-it-alls. > > Why did you chose PHP in the first place? And as a programmer you have to be flexible despite the chosen language. C++/C programmer sometimes must use assembler, in asp/dot.net have to switch between VB,C# and so on. nothing new. thats why languages now days are mainly based on C/C++ to make it easier to jump between languages. (PHP, Perl, Java, JavaScript is based on C/C++ aso) -- MvH / Hans à hlin Tel: +46761488019 http//www.kronan-net.com/
From: tedd on 24 Mar 2010 11:34 Hi gang: When I'm confronted with a large number of emails to read under one subject (like this one), I put on the "Robert, Stuart, Brown" Filter. As such, I only read their post and everything gets to the point quicker and makes more sense. Cheers, tedd -- ------- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com
From: Adam Richardson on 24 Mar 2010 12:37 > > > Rene, I don't want you to jump ship. You've been helpful to many other posters, and I appreciate various points of view on all subjects, yours included. Please bottom post in the future now that you know of their preference, and please step back for a few and take some time to relax. No harm, no foul (a phrase I appreciate more and more as I slow down on the court ;) I will confess that I understand why Rene feels ganged up on. While the words used to counter him have been quite restrained, his request for a feature has been consistently met with "You must be doing the other stuff wrong" responses. That doesn't speak to the heart of the issue, and Rene from previous posts has shown that he's quite capable on many fronts. Requesting a new feature does not necessarily mean that somebody isn't best using the current features. For example, in the past, PHP considered a new array syntax, but those against it expressed the belief that the current syntax was sufficient: http://markmail.org/message/rsi4welftwou24p3 Sufficient, PHP often is, but it's competing within a diverse eco-system of increasingly capable languages, and I hope we all keep focused on how it can continue to improve. The value of our skill set is largely dependent on the strength of the other PHP developers out there, the availability of PHP, etc. Whether it's a new array syntax, threading, or any other new feature, I hope we all carefully deliberate on what the feature may do to attract new PHP developers and keep existing PHP developers. True, developers can mix and match languages as needed, but I find I hear phrases like "Well, if language X doesn't support Y, then why not use langauge Z for everything." That doesn't mean I agree with that approach, but sentiment among executives does exist. For the record, I liked the alternative array syntax suggested in my example, and I've said earlier in this thread that I'd like threading. My example is my web framework. It doesn't use front- or page-level-controllers, but rather micro-controllers with embedded views. Autonomous views could be elegantly processed in parallel, speeding the rendering of the page. And, in F# and Clojure, this is exactly what I'm doing. It would be really nice to do this in PHP, too, as I really do love PHP. And in many examples, caching is not the answer (information is often user specific and/or time specific.) Perhaps some of you won't agree with this need, but that doesn't mean it's not playing a role in the value proposition of PHP in my work. That said, this is not the only reason I'd be for threading, as I believe PHP is directly competing with several other very nice languages in many situations (Python, Ruby, Scala, C#, F#, Scala, etc.), and they all offer some form of threading, and I hope PHP continues to attract a broad range of talents amongst the alternatives. Now, do I expect threading in the near future? NO. PHP does present some special issues for this feature. However, I hope we all will carefully consider where we want PHP to be in the future language market whenever we consider any new features, be they arrays, threading, or mind control ;) I'll not speak anything further on this thread. Adam -- Nephtali: PHP web framework that functions beautifully http://nephtaliproject.com
From: Adam Richardson on 24 Mar 2010 12:48 On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 6:34 AM, Rene Veerman <rene7705(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Tommy Pham <tommyhp2(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Funny you should mention all that. Let's say that you're longer with > > that company, either by direct employment or contract consultant. > > You've implemented C because you need 'thread'. Now your replacement > > comes in and has no clue about C even though your replacement is a PHP > > guru. How much headache is maintenance gonna be? Scalability? > > Portability? wow.... > > > Thanks for posting this before i had to. > > +1, +1, +1... > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > [Sorry for posting here, my earlier response went to a partial thread] Rene, I don't want you to jump ship. You've been helpful to many other posters, and I appreciate various points of view on all subjects, yours included. Please bottom post in the future now that you know of their preference, and please step back for a few and take some time to relax. No harm, no foul (a phrase I appreciate more and more as I slow down on the court ;) I will confess that I understand why Rene feels ganged up on. While the words used to counter him have been quite restrained, his request for a feature has been consistently met with "You must be doing the other stuff wrong" responses. That doesn't speak to the heart of the issue, and Rene from previous posts has shown that he's quite capable on many fronts. Requesting a new feature does not necessarily mean that somebody isn't best using the current features. For example, in the past, PHP considered a new array syntax, but those against it expressed the belief that the current syntax was sufficient: http://markmail.org/message/rsi4welftwou24p3 Sufficient, PHP often is, but it's competing within a diverse eco-system of increasingly capable languages, and I hope we all keep focused on how it can continue to improve. The value of our skill set is largely dependent on the strength of the other PHP developers out there, the availability of PHP, etc. Whether it's a new array syntax, threading, or any other new feature, I hope we all carefully deliberate on what the feature may do to attract new PHP developers and keep existing PHP developers. True, developers can mix and match languages as needed, but I find I hear phrases like "Well, if language X doesn't support Y, then why not use langauge Z for everything." That doesn't mean I agree with that approach, but sentiment among executives does exist. For the record, I liked the alternative array syntax suggested in my example, and I've said earlier in this thread that I'd like threading. My example is my web framework. It doesn't use front- or page-level-controllers, but rather micro-controllers with embedded views. Autonomous views could be elegantly processed in parallel, speeding the rendering of the page. And, in F# and Clojure, this is exactly what I'm doing. It would be really nice to do this in PHP, too, as I really do love PHP. And in many examples, caching is not the answer (information is often user specific and/or time specific.) Perhaps some of you won't agree with this need, but that doesn't mean it's not playing a role in the value proposition of PHP in my work. That said, this is not the only reason I'd be for threading, as I believe PHP is directly competing with several other very nice languages in many situations (Python, Ruby, Scala, C#, F#, Scala, etc.), and they all offer some form of threading, and I hope PHP continues to attract a broad range of talents amongst the alternatives. Now, do I expect threading in the near future? NO. PHP does present some special issues for this feature. However, I hope we all will carefully consider where we want PHP to be in the future language market whenever we consider any new features, be they arrays, threading, or mind control ;) I'll not speak anything further on this thread. Adam -- Nephtali: PHP web framework that functions beautifully http://nephtaliproject.com
From: Sancar Saran on 24 Mar 2010 13:18
On Wednesday 24 March 2010 03:17:56 Tommy Pham wrote: > Let's go back to my 1st e-commerce example. The manufacturers list is > about 3,700. The categories is about about 2,400. The products list > is right now at 500,000 and expected to be around 750,000. The site > is only in English. The store owner wants to expand and be I18n: > Chinese, French, German, Korean, Spanish. You see how big and complex > that database gets? The store owners want to have this happens when a > customer clicks on a category: > > * show all subcategories for that category, if any > * show all products for that category, if any, > * show all manufacturers, used as filtering, for that category and > subcategories * show price range filter for that category > * show features & specifications filter for that category > * show 10 top sellers for that category and related subcategories > * the shopper can then select/deselect any of those filters and > ability to sort by manufacturers, prices, user rating, popularity > (purchased quantity) > * have the ability to switch to another language translation on the fly > * from the moment the shopper click on a link, the response time (when > web browser saids "Done" in the status bar) is 5 seconds or less. > Preferably 2-3 seconds. Will be using stopwatch for the timer. > > Now show me a website that meets those requirements and uses PHP, I'll > be glad to support your argument about PHP w/o threads :) BTW, this > is not even enterprise requirement. I may have another possible > project where # products is over 10 million easily. With similar > requirements when the user click on category. Do you think this site, > which currently isn't, can run on PHP? > > Regards, > Tommy If you design and code correctly. Yes. If you want to use someting alredy. Try TYPO3. PS: Your arguments are something about implementation not something about platform abilities. You can do this things any server side programming with enough hardware. Regards Sancar |