Will phase focusing go the way of the dinosaur?
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From: David J Taylor on 30 Jun 2010 11:08 "John Navas" <jncl1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote in message news:3oim26la8kval464eg1c9tbutkd2jqlmju(a)4ax.com... > On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 08:55:14 +0100, in > <i0et92$3uu$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, "David J Taylor" > <david-taylor(a)blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote: > >>"John Turco" <jtur(a)concentric.net> wrote in message >>news:4C2AB5E4.709EDD8A(a)concentric.net... >>[] >>> Superior or not, "phase focusing" just isn't enough, to offset >>> super-zoom >>> digicams' overall advantages (versus other market segments). > >>Most of the time I find the opposite. My take includes overall image >>quality, speed of total response, viewfinder quality, and ability to >>isolate the subject by differential focussing. When those factors are >>less important than size, I take my Panasonic compact 28-280mm >>(equivalent) zoom. > > Overall image quality, speed of total response, viewfinder quality, and > ability to isolate the subject by differential focussing are some of the > factors that lead me to take my compact Panasonic 27-486mm super-zoom. > > "Different strokes for different folks." > > -- > Best regards, > John Yes, you obviously have different standards. I have owned and used the predecessor to your camera, so I have a good idea how it works in practice. I also have a compact Panasonic 28-280mm zoom which I use when appropriate. Having seen the limitations of both cameras - particularly speed of response - is why I now use a DSLR most of the time. Just two example: - zooming by twisting the ring on a DSLR lens is /far/ faster than having to press a lever one way and then the other, and the precision of framing is far greater on the DSLR with it continuous zoom range than with the stepped zoom of the Panasonic, and of course the DSLR has much less noisy images at the ISOs I wish to use (e.g. ISO 3200). Cheers, David
From: John Navas on 30 Jun 2010 11:20 eOn Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:08:47 +0100, in <i0fmm0$suv$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, "David J Taylor" <david-taylor(a)blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote: >"John Navas" <jncl1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote in message >news:3oim26la8kval464eg1c9tbutkd2jqlmju(a)4ax.com... >> On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 08:55:14 +0100, in >> <i0et92$3uu$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, "David J Taylor" >> <david-taylor(a)blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote: >> >>>"John Turco" <jtur(a)concentric.net> wrote in message >>>news:4C2AB5E4.709EDD8A(a)concentric.net... >>>[] >>>> Superior or not, "phase focusing" just isn't enough, to offset >>>> super-zoom >>>> digicams' overall advantages (versus other market segments). >> >>>Most of the time I find the opposite. My take includes overall image >>>quality, speed of total response, viewfinder quality, and ability to >>>isolate the subject by differential focussing. When those factors are >>>less important than size, I take my Panasonic compact 28-280mm >>>(equivalent) zoom. >> >> Overall image quality, speed of total response, viewfinder quality, and >> ability to isolate the subject by differential focussing are some of the >> factors that lead me to take my compact Panasonic 27-486mm super-zoom. >> >> "Different strokes for different folks." >Yes, you obviously have different standards. I obviously have different skills -- I know how to get good results from such equipment. >I have owned and used the >predecessor to your camera, so I have a good idea how it works in >practice. Since you have no real experience, you're guessing. >I also have a compact Panasonic 28-280mm zoom which I use when >appropriate. Different camera. >Having seen the limitations of both cameras - particularly >speed of response - is why I now use a DSLR most of the time. That a dSLR works better for *you* is all well and good, but that doesn't mean compact digitals don't work better for *others* who know how to use them properly. >Just two >example: - zooming by twisting the ring on a DSLR lens is /far/ faster >than having to press a lever one way and then the other, It's not an issue *if* you know how and are comfortable with the 2-speed zoom. I am. You're not. That simple. >and the precision >of framing is far greater on the DSLR with it continuous zoom range than >with the stepped zoom of the Panasonic, Again, not an issue if you know how. >and of course the DSLR has much >less noisy images at the ISOs I wish to use (e.g. ISO 3200). Then by all means use a dSLR. I almost never have a need for ISO 3200, so it's not a significant factor to me. "Different strokes for different folks." -- Best regards, John Buying a dSLR doesn't make you a photographer, it makes you a dSLR owner. "The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it." -Ansel Adams
From: David J Taylor on 30 Jun 2010 12:53 "John Navas" <jncl1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote in message news:nonm2610lrpgsn5luvm36i7cvu3e5u01hn(a)4ax.com... > eOn Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:08:47 +0100, in > <i0fmm0$suv$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, "David J Taylor" > <david-taylor(a)blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote: > >>"John Navas" <jncl1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote in message >>news:3oim26la8kval464eg1c9tbutkd2jqlmju(a)4ax.com... >>> On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 08:55:14 +0100, in >>> <i0et92$3uu$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, "David J Taylor" >>> <david-taylor(a)blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>>"John Turco" <jtur(a)concentric.net> wrote in message >>>>news:4C2AB5E4.709EDD8A(a)concentric.net... >>>>[] >>>>> Superior or not, "phase focusing" just isn't enough, to offset >>>>> super-zoom >>>>> digicams' overall advantages (versus other market segments). >>> >>>>Most of the time I find the opposite. My take includes overall image >>>>quality, speed of total response, viewfinder quality, and ability to >>>>isolate the subject by differential focussing. When those factors are >>>>less important than size, I take my Panasonic compact 28-280mm >>>>(equivalent) zoom. >>> >>> Overall image quality, speed of total response, viewfinder quality, >>> and >>> ability to isolate the subject by differential focussing are some of >>> the >>> factors that lead me to take my compact Panasonic 27-486mm super-zoom. >>> >>> "Different strokes for different folks." > >>Yes, you obviously have different standards. > > I obviously have different skills -- > I know how to get good results from such equipment. > >>I have owned and used the >>predecessor to your camera, so I have a good idea how it works in >>practice. > > Since you have no real experience, you're guessing. > >>I also have a compact Panasonic 28-280mm zoom which I use when >>appropriate. > > Different camera. > >>Having seen the limitations of both cameras - particularly >>speed of response - is why I now use a DSLR most of the time. > > That a dSLR works better for *you* is all well and good, but that > doesn't mean compact digitals don't work better for *others* who know > how to use them properly. > >>Just two >>example: - zooming by twisting the ring on a DSLR lens is /far/ faster >>than having to press a lever one way and then the other, > > It's not an issue *if* you know how and are comfortable with the 2-speed > zoom. I am. You're not. That simple. > >>and the precision >>of framing is far greater on the DSLR with it continuous zoom range than >>with the stepped zoom of the Panasonic, > > Again, not an issue if you know how. > >>and of course the DSLR has much >>less noisy images at the ISOs I wish to use (e.g. ISO 3200). > > Then by all means use a dSLR. I almost never have a need for ISO 3200, > so it's not a significant factor to me. "Different strokes for > different folks." > > -- > Best regards, > John It must be very satisfying to be always right, John! "> I know how to get good results from such equipment." So you think I lack skills? As I said, I've used the equipment so I know the issues, and I use /both/ DSLR /and/ compact cameras. Cheers, David
From: John Navas on 30 Jun 2010 14:00 On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:53:47 +0100, in <i0fsqs$li4$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, "David J Taylor" <david-taylor(a)blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote: >"John Navas" <jncl1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote in message >news:nonm2610lrpgsn5luvm36i7cvu3e5u01hn(a)4ax.com... >>>and of course the DSLR has much >>>less noisy images at the ISOs I wish to use (e.g. ISO 3200). >> >> Then by all means use a dSLR. I almost never have a need for ISO 3200, >> so it's not a significant factor to me. "Different strokes for >> different folks." >It must be very satisfying to be always right, John! It must be very satisfying to always know what's right for others, David! ;) 'Those who have evidence will present their evidence, whereas those who do not have evidence will attack the man.' Unlike you, I don't presume to judge for others, much less profess to be "always right" -- I just know how to use my camera and that it's right for me. Only you can know what's right for you. Just don't presume to know what's right for me. >"> I know how to get good results from such equipment." > >So you think I lack skills? You lack even knowledge of my particular camera, or even skill and/or comfort with similar cameras, by your own admission. I'm guessing you do have more skills in other areas, and don't mean to suggest otherwise. >As I said, I've used the equipment so I know the issues, and I use /both/ >DSLR /and/ compact cameras. You haven't used my equipment by your own admission. Regardless, that doesn't mean your limitations and judgments apply to me or anybody else who knows how to use it without such difficulties. That it doesn't work well for you doesn't mean it won't work well for others. I say my compact digital works better for me than any dSLR i've tried. You say your dSLR works better for you than any compact digital you've tried. Both are equally valid statements. Neither is any sort of universal truth. -- Best regards, John Buying a dSLR doesn't make you a photographer, it makes you a dSLR owner. "The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it." -Ansel Adams
From: C.P. Robbins on 30 Jun 2010 14:11
On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:08:47 +0100, "David J Taylor" <david-taylor(a)blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote: >"John Navas" <jncl1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote in message >news:3oim26la8kval464eg1c9tbutkd2jqlmju(a)4ax.com... >> On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 08:55:14 +0100, in >> <i0et92$3uu$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, "David J Taylor" >> <david-taylor(a)blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote: >> >>>"John Turco" <jtur(a)concentric.net> wrote in message >>>news:4C2AB5E4.709EDD8A(a)concentric.net... >>>[] >>>> Superior or not, "phase focusing" just isn't enough, to offset >>>> super-zoom >>>> digicams' overall advantages (versus other market segments). >> >>>Most of the time I find the opposite. My take includes overall image >>>quality, speed of total response, viewfinder quality, and ability to >>>isolate the subject by differential focussing. When those factors are >>>less important than size, I take my Panasonic compact 28-280mm >>>(equivalent) zoom. >> >> Overall image quality, speed of total response, viewfinder quality, and >> ability to isolate the subject by differential focussing are some of the >> factors that lead me to take my compact Panasonic 27-486mm super-zoom. >> >> "Different strokes for different folks." >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> John > >Yes, you obviously have different standards. I have owned and used the >predecessor to your camera, so I have a good idea how it works in >practice. I also have a compact Panasonic 28-280mm zoom which I use when >appropriate. Having seen the limitations of both cameras - particularly >speed of response - is why I now use a DSLR most of the time. Just two >example: - zooming by twisting the ring on a DSLR lens is /far/ faster >than having to press a lever one way and then the other, and the precision >of framing is far greater on the DSLR with it continuous zoom range than >with the stepped zoom of the Panasonic, and of course the DSLR has much >less noisy images at the ISOs I wish to use (e.g. ISO 3200). > >Cheers, >David Yeah? How are all those misfocused shots that phase-detection focusing is always plagued with? How's that working out for you? Miss any useful shots because when you got home you found it the focus wasn't spot on and the image was only useful for 5"x3" prints if lucky? Be honest now. Anyone can type: front back focusing problem dslr, into a google search and get MANY MILLIONS of hits. :-) And that's only how many report the problem, not the total number of shots their phase-detection focusing actually ruined for them. |