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From: Warren Oates on 7 Feb 2010 12:30
In article <2010020623245016807-sdfisher(a)spamcopnet>,
Steven Fisher <sdfisher(a)spamcop.net> wrote:

> The only reason you should continue to run 10.5.6 is if:
> - you don't use MobileMe.
> - you don't use BlueTooth.
> - you don't use a Mac with nVidia graphics.
> - you never use Spotlight
> - you don't print
> - you don't use iCal
> - you don't use a wireless keyboard or mouse
> - you never use BCC in Mail
> - you don't use AFP
> - you don't use wireless networks
> - you don't use Safari
>
> and, thanks to various fixes that haven't been ported to 10.5.6:
> - you don't connect to the Internet

What?

I was using all that long before 10.5.6 (well, not MobileMoron, but
everything else).
--
Very old woody beets will never cook tender.
-- Fannie Farmer
From: Neal Reid on 7 Feb 2010 14:06
In article <2010020623245016807-sdfisher(a)spamcopnet>,
Steven Fisher <sdfisher(a)spamcop.net> wrote:

> The only reason you should continue to run 10.5.6 is if:
> - you don't use MobileMe.
Nope
> - you don't use BlueTooth.
I do - and it works flawlessly
> - you don't use a Mac with nVidia graphics.
Nope
> - you never use Spotlight
All the time; no issues
> - you don't print
Again, works
> - you don't use iCal
Never have
> - you don't use a wireless keyboard or mouse
See BlueTooth above
> - you never use BCC in Mail
Never used Mail
> - you don't use AFP
Works (on the very rare occasions I use it)
> - you don't use wireless networks
I'm wired. My wife's wireless iMac works
> - you don't use Safari
Never have (as my original post states)
> and, thanks to various fixes that haven't been ported to 10.5.6:
> - you don't connect to the Internet
Now you're just being silly!
> Computer system software is not a place where you can say if it isn't
> broke it shouldn't be fixed. The ONLY reason there's an update is that
> it was broken. It sucks that this is how computers are, but it's
> reality. You should step into it.
About the only thing that has ever caused me grief on this machine is
Apple updates. Way too often, Apple has made assumptions about my
environment and run installers where any 2nd year comp. sci. student
would know better. I've had to back out of so many things, I now wait
until something I need is broken before I fix it.

What is broken now is that I can't use the iTunes Store. In my book,
that's Apple's lose, not mine (as there are LOTS of other places).
From: Neal Reid on 7 Feb 2010 14:14
In article <hklmib$oc0$2(a)news.eternal-september.org>,
Wes Groleau <Groleau+news(a)FreeShell.org> wrote:

> Neal Reid wrote:
> > I don't use Safari at all. I CAN'T upgrade to Safari 4 (unless I'm
> > willing to update to 10.5.8 - I'm not, see above quote).
>
> While I agree with most of your rant, this part is bogus.
> My Safari identifies itself as Version 4.0.4 (4531.21.10),
> and my O.S. as Version 10.4.11, Build 85165. And I don't
> use Safari either. "Upgrade" does not equal "use."

From the Safari 4 page at apple.com:
Any Mac running Mac OS X Leopard 10.5.7 or Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.11 and
Security Update 2009-002
So Tiger is O.K. but I'm one update behind on Leopard - go figure!
From: Neal Reid on 7 Feb 2010 14:21
In article <00ea4363$0$23698$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com>,
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot(a)vaxination.ca> wrote:

> Neal Reid wrote:
>
> > You mean Apple now has a proprietary rendering engine? They've declared
> > their own standard? I though M$FT was pompous!
>
> No. Apple has its HTML rendering "framework" which comes with Safari and
> is usable by any application that needs to display HTML code. Itunes
> uses it. So if the framework that comes with safari isn't available,
> Itunes can't load the OS-X equivalent of a Windows DLL to acctess the
> HTML rendering routines.
At least M$FT will check for required DLL's before running an update
which requires them - as does ANY properly written installer.

My point is NOT that Apple requires a particular framework to do
something - but that they allow the iTunes 9 installer to run without
either insuring that it is there or installing it as part of the package.

This is simple Uses/Used By stuff that's fundamental to good design.
From: Steven Fisher on 7 Feb 2010 14:39
In article <nealreid-AF9708.14065507022010(a)news.magma.ca>,
Neal Reid <nealreid(a)magma.ca> wrote:

> In article <2010020623245016807-sdfisher(a)spamcopnet>,
> Steven Fisher <sdfisher(a)spamcop.net> wrote:
>
<snip>
> > and, thanks to various fixes that haven't been ported to 10.5.6:
> > - you don't connect to the Internet
> Now you're just being silly!

No, I'm not. The main point of 10.5.7 -- more so than the other items on
the list -- was security fixes.

> About the only thing that has ever caused me grief on this machine is
> Apple updates. Way too often, Apple has made assumptions about my
> environment and run installers where any 2nd year comp. sci. student
> would know better. I've had to back out of so many things, I now wait
> until something I need is broken before I fix it.

Which is ignorant of how computers. Not just a little ignorant, but
mind-boggling, jaw-droppingly, shouldn't-be-allowed-to-touch-a-
computer-let-alone-be-on-the-Internet ignorant. If you're having that
many problms, either your hardware is bad or you're doing something that
breaks the update process. Either way, the solution isn't to stick your
head in the sand.

I'm not saying you need to be an early adopter by any means, but 10.5.7
was released in May 2009 and 10.5.8 in August 2009. The jury has long
since returned: they're good updates. And it's long since time for you
to upgrade.


Steve
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