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From: Dave on 11 Feb 2010 09:22
Does the "starter" continue to function once the lamp is going, or does it
"drop out"? Just wondering. I fixed my MIL's light by replacing the
defective coil being driven by the SIDAC NTE6419, but wife is worried that
I'm going to burn her mom's house down. I put a larger coil in, and it is
brighter than it was, so she is worried that it will overheat and catch
fire. I tell her not to worry cause if it overheats the SIDAC will fail,
shutting the whole system down. But if the "starter" (labeled "ignitor")
only comes on for a few seconds to get the lamp going, that would be better
than ever.

Thanks for any feedback,

Dave


From: PeterD on 11 Feb 2010 18:55
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:22:52 -0600, "Dave" <db5151(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

>Does the "starter" continue to function once the lamp is going, or does it
>"drop out"? Just wondering. I fixed my MIL's light by replacing the
>defective coil being driven by the SIDAC NTE6419, but wife is worried that
>I'm going to burn her mom's house down. I put a larger coil in, and it is
>brighter than it was, so she is worried that it will overheat and catch
>fire. I tell her not to worry cause if it overheats the SIDAC will fail,
>shutting the whole system down. But if the "starter" (labeled "ignitor")
>only comes on for a few seconds to get the lamp going, that would be better
>than ever.
>
>Thanks for any feedback,
>
>Dave
>


In the diagram at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-vapor_lamp, near
the middle of the web page, please point out the 'starter' or
'igniter'? Most HPS lamps have just a ballast and the lamp bulb, at
least the ones I see.

Personally I'd strongly recommend not replacing the balast with
anything other than the properly designed balast, matched to the bulb.
Since you have made this change, I'd agree with your wife: the lamp is
likely unsafe and probalby should not be used.

And replacing the ballast with a different one has what to do with the
(mythical) starter? That leaves me confused...

From: Samuel M. Goldwasser on 11 Feb 2010 19:38
PeterD <peter2(a)hipson.net> writes:

> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:22:52 -0600, "Dave" <db5151(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Does the "starter" continue to function once the lamp is going, or does it
> >"drop out"? Just wondering. I fixed my MIL's light by replacing the
> >defective coil being driven by the SIDAC NTE6419, but wife is worried that
> >I'm going to burn her mom's house down. I put a larger coil in, and it is
> >brighter than it was, so she is worried that it will overheat and catch
> >fire. I tell her not to worry cause if it overheats the SIDAC will fail,
> >shutting the whole system down. But if the "starter" (labeled "ignitor")
> >only comes on for a few seconds to get the lamp going, that would be better
> >than ever.
> >
> >Thanks for any feedback,
> >
> >Dave
>
> In the diagram at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-vapor_lamp, near
> the middle of the web page, please point out the 'starter' or
> 'igniter'? Most HPS lamps have just a ballast and the lamp bulb, at
> least the ones I see.
>
> Personally I'd strongly recommend not replacing the balast with
> anything other than the properly designed balast, matched to the bulb.
> Since you have made this change, I'd agree with your wife: the lamp is
> likely unsafe and probalby should not be used.
>
> And replacing the ballast with a different one has what to do with the
> (mythical) starter? That leaves me confused...

Agreed.

And especially, no modification should be allowed that increases the
brightness of the lamp unless the lamp is confirmed to be operating at the
spec'd current. Presumably in this case, it there was some other
problem resulting in reduced current. Brighter lamp -> higher temperature,
which can result in a quick failure, hopefully not very explosively.

If there is no external igniter circuit, there may be one built into
the lamp.

Don't believe everything you read in Wikipedia.

--
sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
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From: Dave on 11 Feb 2010 20:40

"Samuel M. Goldwasser" <sam(a)repairfaq.org> wrote in message
news:uiqa3l24t.fsf(a)repairfaq.org...
> PeterD <peter2(a)hipson.net> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:22:52 -0600, "Dave" <db5151(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Does the "starter" continue to function once the lamp is going, or does
>> >it
>> >"drop out"? Just wondering. I fixed my MIL's light by replacing the
>> >defective coil being driven by the SIDAC NTE6419, but wife is worried
>> >that
>> >I'm going to burn her mom's house down. I put a larger coil in, and it
>> >is
>> >brighter than it was, so she is worried that it will overheat and catch
>> >fire. I tell her not to worry cause if it overheats the SIDAC will
>> >fail,
>> >shutting the whole system down. But if the "starter" (labeled
>> >"ignitor")
>> >only comes on for a few seconds to get the lamp going, that would be
>> >better
>> >than ever.
>> >
>> >Thanks for any feedback,
>> >
>> >Dave
>>
>> In the diagram at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-vapor_lamp, near
>> the middle of the web page, please point out the 'starter' or
>> 'igniter'? Most HPS lamps have just a ballast and the lamp bulb, at
>> least the ones I see.
>>
>> Personally I'd strongly recommend not replacing the balast with
>> anything other than the properly designed balast, matched to the bulb.
>> Since you have made this change, I'd agree with your wife: the lamp is
>> likely unsafe and probalby should not be used.
>>
>> And replacing the ballast with a different one has what to do with the
>> (mythical) starter? That leaves me confused...
>
> Agreed.
>
> And especially, no modification should be allowed that increases the
> brightness of the lamp unless the lamp is confirmed to be operating at the
> spec'd current. Presumably in this case, it there was some other
> problem resulting in reduced current. Brighter lamp -> higher
> temperature,
> which can result in a quick failure, hopefully not very explosively.
>
> If there is no external igniter circuit, there may be one built into
> the lamp.
>
> Don't believe everything you read in Wikipedia.
>
> --
> sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
> Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
> +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
> | Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html
>


Hey all,

Thank you very much for the input, first of all. Secondly, I posted a JPEG
of the starter (labeled "ignitor" on the cannister which holds the PCB and
ciruit I am about to referrence) to ABSE on 2/2/10 at 3:30 PM. There
pictured is the (failing) blue choke I replaced with a larger choke. The
one I took out *looked* like it might be a 60 or 75 uH choke, and I put
first a 100 uH choke in its place, and finally a 130 uH that would just
barely fit into the (plastic) cannister. In testing, the choke did not seem
to generate any heat, and my logic was as follows: if it did cause the
starter (ignitor) to overheat it would bring about the demise of the NTE2419
SIDAC bi-directional thyristor diode immediately to it's side (on the right
in the JPEG) thereby shutting down the circuit. Below the PCB (in the JPEG)
is the ballast, which I did nothing with. Since I was replacing a passive
component with a passive component, I wasn't too worried. Burn-in did not
raise any suspicions (1/4 hour of operation in my workshop). I would send
more photos (and try again to figure out this damn camera) but the light is
currently in use. The experimenting I did with the light only seemed to
show that a lower inductance choke resulted in a more "yellow" illumination,
and a higher inductance gave a "whiter" light. I can bring it down if there
is truly cause for concern, just hate to do so unnecessarilly. And there is
nothing in the diagram referrenced above like the small circuit I was
working on inside the cover of the lamp. Don't know what to think about
that...

Thanks,

Dave


From: Dave on 11 Feb 2010 21:05

"Dave" <db5151(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:js-dnc9QtPIoLOnWnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d(a)posted.internetamerica...
>
> "Samuel M. Goldwasser" <sam(a)repairfaq.org> wrote in message
> news:uiqa3l24t.fsf(a)repairfaq.org...
>> PeterD <peter2(a)hipson.net> writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:22:52 -0600, "Dave" <db5151(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Does the "starter" continue to function once the lamp is going, or does
>>> >it
>>> >"drop out"? Just wondering. I fixed my MIL's light by replacing the
>>> >defective coil being driven by the SIDAC NTE6419, but wife is worried
>>> >that
>>> >I'm going to burn her mom's house down. I put a larger coil in, and it
>>> >is
>>> >brighter than it was, so she is worried that it will overheat and catch
>>> >fire. I tell her not to worry cause if it overheats the SIDAC will
>>> >fail,
>>> >shutting the whole system down. But if the "starter" (labeled
>>> >"ignitor")
>>> >only comes on for a few seconds to get the lamp going, that would be
>>> >better
>>> >than ever.
>>> >
>>> >Thanks for any feedback,
>>> >
>>> >Dave
>>>
>>> In the diagram at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-vapor_lamp, near
>>> the middle of the web page, please point out the 'starter' or
>>> 'igniter'? Most HPS lamps have just a ballast and the lamp bulb, at
>>> least the ones I see.
>>>
>>> Personally I'd strongly recommend not replacing the balast with
>>> anything other than the properly designed balast, matched to the bulb.
>>> Since you have made this change, I'd agree with your wife: the lamp is
>>> likely unsafe and probalby should not be used.
>>>
>>> And replacing the ballast with a different one has what to do with the
>>> (mythical) starter? That leaves me confused...
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> And especially, no modification should be allowed that increases the
>> brightness of the lamp unless the lamp is confirmed to be operating at
>> the
>> spec'd current. Presumably in this case, it there was some other
>> problem resulting in reduced current. Brighter lamp -> higher
>> temperature,
>> which can result in a quick failure, hopefully not very explosively.
>>
>> If there is no external igniter circuit, there may be one built into
>> the lamp.
>>
>> Don't believe everything you read in Wikipedia.
>>
>> --
>> sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
>> Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
>> +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
>> | Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html
>>
>
>
> Hey all,
>
> Thank you very much for the input, first of all. Secondly, I posted a
> JPEG of the starter (labeled "ignitor" on the cannister which holds the
> PCB and ciruit I am about to referrence) to ABSE on 2/2/10 at 3:30 PM.
> There pictured is the (failing) blue choke I replaced with a larger choke.
> The one I took out *looked* like it might be a 60 or 75 uH choke, and I
> put first a 100 uH choke in its place, and finally a 130 uH that would
> just barely fit into the (plastic) cannister. In testing, the choke did
> not seem to generate any heat, and my logic was as follows: if it did
> cause the starter (ignitor) to overheat it would bring about the demise of
> the NTE2419 SIDAC bi-directional thyristor diode immediately to it's side
> (on the right in the JPEG) thereby shutting down the circuit. Below the
> PCB (in the JPEG) is the ballast, which I did nothing with. Since I was
> replacing a passive component with a passive component, I wasn't too
> worried. Burn-in did not raise any suspicions (1/4 hour of operation in
> my workshop). I would send more photos (and try again to figure out this
> damn camera) but the light is currently in use. The experimenting I did
> with the light only seemed to show that a lower inductance choke resulted
> in a more "yellow" illumination, and a higher inductance gave a "whiter"
> light. I can bring it down if there is truly cause for concern, just hate
> to do so unnecessarilly. And there is nothing in the diagram referrenced
> above like the small circuit I was working on inside the cover of the
> lamp. Don't know what to think about that...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>


PS: Burn in was a 1/2 hour operation in my workshot, not 1/4 hour, as
written above. My bad. Sorry.

Dave


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