photons and reflection
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From: Bret Cannon on 6 Dec 2009 23:00 "Louis Boyd" <boyd(a)apt0.sao.arizona.edu> wrote in message news:hfcnmb$6m4$1(a)onion.ccit.arizona.edu... > BURT wrote: > >> A mirror is an example of a metal coating that can handle every >> frequency of light. Quantization does not apply here either. A rainbow >> and anything exibiting white light cannot be a phenomenon of >> quantization of energy in the atom. A laser would be an exception that >> needs to be taken into account. Evidently quantization has a limited >> applicability. > > It's my understanding that quantization applies to the detection of EM > radiation when the detection involve changing electron states including > modifying chemical bonds. It's my understanding that it doesn't apply > when detection is accomplished simply by heating (increase in molecular > velocity) not involving ionization. So QM can apply to white light and > rainbows if you use your eye, film, or a CCD but not if you use a > bolometer or thermometer as the detector. > > I could be dead wrong, but I consider photons to only "exist" when and > where light exchanges energy with matter at a sub-molecular level. At > least that view seems to be sufficient for engineering needs when working > with emitters and detectors. > > Educate me. How does that view conflict with formal QM theory? "Photons" show up, that is light detection is appears and discrete events, when light is detected, even with thermal detectors. To observe this experimentally you of course need high enough signal to noise, but it is done. For example, super conducting bolometers can not only detect soft x-ray photons as discrete detection events, but also measure their energy with a resolution of a few percent or better. I remember an interesting talk on this work by a professor of physics or astronomy from the University of Wisconsin at Madison. Bret Cannon
From: BURT on 6 Dec 2009 23:31 On Dec 6, 8:00 pm, "Bret Cannon" <nore...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > "Louis Boyd" <b...(a)apt0.sao.arizona.edu> wrote in message > > news:hfcnmb$6m4$1(a)onion.ccit.arizona.edu... > > > > > > > BURT wrote: > > >> A mirror is an example of a metal coating that can handle every > >> frequency of light. Quantization does not apply here either. A rainbow > >> and anything exibiting white light cannot be a phenomenon of > >> quantization of energy in the atom. A laser would be an exception that > >> needs to be taken into account. Evidently quantization has a limited > >> applicability. > > > It's my understanding that quantization applies to the detection of EM > > radiation when the detection involve changing electron states including > > modifying chemical bonds. It's my understanding that it doesn't apply > > when detection is accomplished simply by heating (increase in molecular > > velocity) not involving ionization. So QM can apply to white light and > > rainbows if you use your eye, film, or a CCD but not if you use a > > bolometer or thermometer as the detector. > > > I could be dead wrong, but I consider photons to only "exist" when and > > where light exchanges energy with matter at a sub-molecular level. At > > least that view seems to be sufficient for engineering needs when working > > with emitters and detectors. > > > Educate me. How does that view conflict with formal QM theory? > > "Photons" show up, that is light detection is appears and discrete events, > when light is detected, even with thermal detectors. To observe this > experimentally you of course need high enough signal to noise, but it is > done. For example, super conducting bolometers can not only detect soft > x-ray photons as discrete detection events, but also measure their energy > with a resolution of a few percent or better. I remember an interesting > talk on this work by a professor of physics or astronomy from the University > of Wisconsin at Madison. > > Bret Cannon- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - If light is a particle which of its waves is this particle in? its magnetic wave or electric wave? No. Einstein questioned his photon in the end. He questioned what he won the Nobel Prize for. Reflection of a mirror is not quantized and happens over all visual frequencies of light. Quantization has been disproven. It does have application but it is the lesser truth. Mitch Raemsch
From: Skywise on 7 Dec 2009 01:43 BURT <macromitch(a)yahoo.com> wrote in news:b72906b1-e886-418b-8f3e- 525a12b37954(a)m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com: > Quantization has been disproven. It does have application but it is > the lesser truth. So, please tell us. What is the greater truth? Brian -- http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
From: Bob Masta on 7 Dec 2009 09:32 On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 20:31:18 -0800 (PST), BURT <macromitch(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >If light is a particle which of its waves is this particle in? its >magnetic wave or electric wave? Yes. Don't think of this as "either-or", think of the photon as the oscillation between magnetic and electric fields. To use a mechanical analogy, you might think of the photon as a rubber ball flying through space. It is springy in the X and Y dimensions, and oscillates between having its energy stored in X-compression/Y-elongation, versus Y-compression/X-elongation. Now take away the ball. Best regards, Bob Masta DAQARTA v5.00 Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis www.daqarta.com Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter Frequency Counter, FREE Signal Generator Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI DaqMusic - FREE MUSIC, Forever! (Some assembly required) Science (and fun!) with your sound card!
From: Androcles on 7 Dec 2009 10:53
"Bob Masta" <N0Spam(a)daqarta.com> wrote in message news:4b1d0fb6.1129688(a)news.sysmatrix.net... > On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 20:31:18 -0800 (PST), BURT > <macromitch(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>If light is a particle which of its waves is this particle in? its >>magnetic wave or electric wave? > > Yes. Don't think of this as "either-or", think of > the photon as the oscillation between magnetic and > electric fields. To use a mechanical analogy, you > might think of the photon as a rubber ball flying > through space. It is springy in the X and Y > dimensions, and oscillates between having its > energy stored in X-compression/Y-elongation, > versus Y-compression/X-elongation. > > Now take away the ball. > > Best regards, > > > Bob Masta Quite right, Bob. I sometimes use a "leapfrog" analogy, the electric field creates the magnetic field as the electric collapses and then the magnetic creates the electric field in turn. http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/AC/AC.htm |