photons and reflection
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From: BURT on 8 Dec 2009 16:53 On Dec 8, 1:44 pm, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_q> wrote: > "George Herold" <ggher...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:bc2be262-2a4f-4ba9-ab61-2140c09aa064(a)b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 8, 11:16 am, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_q> wrote: > > > > > > > "George Herold" <ggher...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:0497f18c-647c-4792-a268-197905b5f01d(a)u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > > On Dec 7, 10:53 am, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_q> wrote: > > > > "Bob Masta" <N0S...(a)daqarta.com> wrote in message > > > >news:4b1d0fb6.1129688(a)news.sysmatrix.net... > > > > > On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 20:31:18 -0800 (PST), BURT > > > > <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >>If light is a particle which of its waves is this particle in? its > > > >>magnetic wave or electric wave? > > > > > Yes. Don't think of this as "either-or", think of > > > > the photon as the oscillation between magnetic and > > > > electric fields. To use a mechanical analogy, you > > > > might think of the photon as a rubber ball flying > > > > through space. It is springy in the X and Y > > > > dimensions, and oscillates between having its > > > > energy stored in X-compression/Y-elongation, > > > > versus Y-compression/X-elongation. > > > > > Now take away the ball. > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Bob Masta > > > > Quite right, Bob. I sometimes use a "leapfrog" analogy, the electric > > > field creates the magnetic field as the electric collapses and then the > > > magnetic creates the electric field in turn. > > >http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/AC/AC.htm-Hidequoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Hi Androcles. I use to like this analogy too. Until I learned a few > > years ago that in E-M radiation the E and B are in phase! > > =========================================== > > Then you should unlearn it immediately. If E and B were in phase > > both would be zero simultaneously and that violates the first law of > > thermodynamics, you'd create energy from nothing. > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics > > But anyway, Maxwell's equations never did claim E and B were in phase, > > what you've "learnt" is a rumour spread by the incompetent. > > =========================================== > > > At first I > > thought there was a mistake... but then discovered that the mistake > > was mine. (Your link shows correctly the in phase behavior so I > > realize I'm not telling you anything you don't know.) > > > Anyway the analogy can lead to false conclusions. (At least for me.) > > > So now I see that the E field at some time was 'created' by some B > > field at a previous time.... > > ============================================ > > Any spark will start the process. A flame is a chemical reaction > > whereby the electrons of the atoms are rearranged to build a different > > molecule. 2H2 + O2 -> 2H2O. > > ============================================ > > > Which starts to 'weird' me out if think > > too hard. All of a sudden I picture 'photons' travelling in both > > directions. > > > George H. > > > =========================================== > > Androcles' third law: For every photon there is an equal and > > opposite rephoton. > >http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rephoton.gif > > (It's Newton's third law applied to E-M waves and allows > > for light to travel in beams -- quite simple, really.) > > > Of course you'll never see a rephoton without a mirror, it is > > travelling away from you. Rephotons are the major cause of > > poorly understood spooky entanglement. > > > -- > > 'By denying scientific principles, one may maintain any paradox.' - > > Galileo > > Galilei > > 'There is nothing so easy but that it becomes difficult when you do it > > with > > reluctance.'- Marcus Tullius Cicero > > New ideas are old ideas resurrected. - Androcles.- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Hmm, Sorry on my second look your picture of a photon has it wrong > you've got the E and B fields 90 degrees out of phase. > ===================================== > It's right. Just ask any electrical engineer. > ===================================== > > This is > exactly what I would have drawn a few years ago. > ===================================== > You'd have been right years ago. > ===================================== > > But check out this, > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation > > There is a picture if you scroll down a bit. > > George H. > ================================================= > Wackypedia is written by both incompetent kooks and the wise. > Kooks outnumber the wise by at least 100:1, perhaps a 1000:1. > Wackypedia has it wrong. See the discussion page, there are a set of > tabs labelled "article", "discussion", "edit this page" and "history" > at the top. > YOU can edit the page, I refuse to have anything to do with it. > > Faraday wrote E = -dB/dt. > He did not write E = B, he did not write dE/dt = -dB/dt and > he did experiment. A CHANGING magnetic field produces > an electric field. Ask any generator designer. > > The kook diagram you've indicated shows E = B. > Use this instead: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigonometric_functions > > And do not write > - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted > text -- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -- Show > quoted text -, it irritates me. > Delete it before you post to usenet.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - If the photon is in light which wave is it in? Mitch Raemsch
From: Skywise on 8 Dec 2009 23:26 BURT <macromitch(a)yahoo.com> wrote in news:13d204a0-e272-46cb-bb40- 3363ec996a6f(a)b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com: > Show me where I am wrong. I have climbed Mount Everest. Prove me wrong. Brian -- http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
From: Skywise on 8 Dec 2009 23:26 BURT <macromitch(a)yahoo.com> wrote in news:8b79ee65-5af0-44a2-bf00- a67ed367a2e8(a)2g2000prl.googlegroups.com: > The truth is meant to be known. Quantization is the lesser concept > than full ranges of energy. So then, what is the truth? If quantization is 'less correct', then what is 'more correct'. If you're going to tell us we're wrong, then tell us what's right. We're listening. Brian -- http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
From: Bob Masta on 9 Dec 2009 07:57 On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:53:48 -0800 (PST), BURT <macromitch(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >If the photon is in light which wave is it in? Why do you think it needs to be "in" one wave or the other? Bob Masta DAQARTA v5.00 Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis www.daqarta.com Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter Frequency Counter, FREE Signal Generator Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI DaqMusic - FREE MUSIC, Forever! (Some assembly required) Science (and fun!) with your sound card!
From: George Herold on 9 Dec 2009 13:13
On Dec 8, 4:44 pm, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_q> wrote: > "George Herold" <ggher...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:bc2be262-2a4f-4ba9-ab61-2140c09aa064(a)b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 8, 11:16 am, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_q> wrote: > <snip> > Hmm, Sorry on my second look your picture of a photon has it wrong > you've got the E and B fields 90 degrees out of phase. > ===================================== > It's right. Just ask any electrical engineer. > ===================================== > > This is > exactly what I would have drawn a few years ago. > ===================================== > You'd have been right years ago. > ===================================== > > But check out this, > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation > > There is a picture if you scroll down a bit. > > George H. > ================================================= > Wackypedia is written by both incompetent kooks and the wise. > Kooks outnumber the wise by at least 100:1, perhaps a 1000:1. > Wackypedia has it wrong. See the discussion page, there are a set of > tabs labelled "article", "discussion", "edit this page" and "history" > at the top. > YOU can edit the page, I refuse to have anything to do with it. > > Faraday wrote E = -dB/dt. > He did not write E = B, he did not write dE/dt = -dB/dt and > he did experiment. A CHANGING magnetic field produces > an electric field. Ask any generator designer. > > The kook diagram you've indicated shows E = B. > Use this instead: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigonometric_functions > Hi Androcles, Are you so sure you are correct? Or is there some chance you could learn something new? I don't mind trying to work through the mathematics with you.... But only if you are interested. I know about Faraday's law. But we are talking about someting different here. It is the travleing wave solution of Maxwells equations. I think that in the near field of the source you will find that the E and B fields are out of phase. But the far-field traveling wave is different. I'm not much of a theorist. But looking over the solutions (At the moment I'm looking at Volume 3 (Waves) of the Berkley series on Physics) One can see that the spacial derivative of B is equal to 1/c times the time derivative of E. (and visa versa.) From which (with a little math) one can see that the E and B are in phase. (Oh this is the free space solution.) George H. |