sonoluminescence: sonofusion explained
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From: amdx on 27 Sep 2009 17:19 "N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <dlzc1(a)cox.net> wrote in message news:3NOvm.1401$S_4.201(a)newsfe23.iad... > Dear Szczepan: > > "Szczepan" <sz.bialek(a)wp.pl> wrote in message > news:h9ntg5$ftr$1(a)node1.news.atman.pl... > ... >>> No, it is not. There is no sonic-driven bubble >>> formation/collapse. >> >> Bubble formation/collapse are at cavitation. There >> are also small sparks. Do you know why? > > Do you have a citation? They emit light, because, among other things, the > gas laws apply. As the pressure increases, so does the temperature, until > a plasma forms. (And it is more complex than this.) > >> "The bubbles are very small when they emit the >> light-about 1 micrometre in diameter-depending on the >> ambient fluid (e.g., water) and the gas content of the bubble (e.g., >> atmospheric air)." >> >> Sono- should be changed in waterluminescence. > > You should be charged admission. Do you think sonoluminescence only > occurs in water? It has been seen to occur in silicone oil too. Probably > more. > >>>> In idustry spark jumps between water and a metal. >>>> ECM heating. >>> >>> Plasma formation from electron bombardment is >>> significantly different than sonoluminescence. >> >> Each small spark is like light. > > Each light is not a spark. > > David A. Smith > If anyone is interested in the action of different sparge gases take a look at http://www.ultrasonic-energy.com/shop_talk.html Page down about 1/3 to where it says, FEATURED ARTICLE: Visit to Caltech Info starts in the second paragraph. Mike
From: Szczepan on 28 Sep 2009 04:45 "N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <dlzc1(a)cox.net> wrote news:3NOvm.1401$S_4.201(a)newsfe23.iad... > Dear Szczepan: > > "Szczepan" <sz.bialek(a)wp.pl> wrote in message > news:h9ntg5$ftr$1(a)node1.news.atman.pl... > ... >>> No, it is not. There is no sonic-driven bubble >>> formation/collapse. >> >> Bubble formation/collapse are at cavitation. There >> are also small sparks. Do you know why? > > Do you have a citation? They emit light, because, among other things, the > gas laws apply. As the pressure increases, so does the temperature, until > a plasma forms. (And it is more complex than this.) Thinks are rather a little different and simple. In old explanations the cavitation damages were caused by collapsing. Now we know that the damages are caused by electrochemical corossion. In bubble formation zone the voltage decrease. In collpsing zone increase. The prssure has not to do here. > >> "The bubbles are very small when they emit the >> light-about 1 micrometre in diameter-depending on the >> ambient fluid (e.g., water) and the gas content of the bubble (e.g., >> atmospheric air)." >> >> Sono- should be changed in waterluminescence. > > You should be charged admission. Do you think sonoluminescence only > occurs in water? It has been seen to occur in silicone oil too. Probably > more. May be fluidluminescence . Bat the best will be the bubbleluminescence. It is not important what cause the bubble formation/collapsing process. > >>>> In idustry spark jumps between water and a metal. >>>> ECM heating. >>> >>> Plasma formation from electron bombardment is >>> significantly different than sonoluminescence. >> >> Each small spark is like light. > > Each light is not a spark. But here the electrons jump. S*
From: N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) on 28 Sep 2009 09:01 Dear Szczepan: "Szczepan" <sz.bialek(a)wp.pl> wrote in message news:h9phpg$nto$1(a)node1.news.atman.pl... > > "N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <dlzc1(a)cox.net> wrote > news:3NOvm.1401$S_4.201(a)newsfe23.iad... >> Dear Szczepan: >> >> "Szczepan" <sz.bialek(a)wp.pl> wrote in message >> news:h9ntg5$ftr$1(a)node1.news.atman.pl... >> ... >>>> No, it is not. There is no sonic-driven bubble >>>> formation/collapse. >>> >>> Bubble formation/collapse are at cavitation. There >>> are also small sparks. Do you know why? >> >> Do you have a citation? They emit light, because, >> among other things, the gas laws apply. As the >> pressure increases, so does the temperature, until a plasma >> forms. (And it is more complex than this.) > > Thinks are rather a little different and simple. > In old explanations the cavitation damages were > caused by collapsing. Now we know that the > damages are caused by electrochemical corossion. Again, do you have a citation? Rather than answer a claim, you make another one... > In bubble formation zone the voltage decrease. > In collpsing zone increase. The prssure has not > to do here. > >>> "The bubbles are very small when they emit the >>> light-about 1 micrometre in diameter-depending on the >>> ambient fluid (e.g., water) and the gas content of the >>> bubble (e.g., atmospheric air)." >>> >>> Sono- should be changed in waterluminescence. >> >> You should be charged admission. Do you think >> sonoluminescence only occurs in water? It has >> been seen to occur in silicone oil too. Probably more. > > May be fluidluminescence . Bat the best will be > the bubbleluminescence. It is not important what > cause the bubble formation/collapsing process. How about leaving the name alone, since it is common ground for the rest of humanity, and your choices convey no more meaning? >>>>> In idustry spark jumps between water and a metal. >>>>> ECM heating. >>>> >>>> Plasma formation from electron bombardment is >>>> significantly different than sonoluminescence. >>> >>> Each small spark is like light. >> >> Each light is not a spark. > > But here the electrons jump. If there is light, electrons jump. Say something meaningful. David A. Smith
From: Szczepan on 28 Sep 2009 14:00 "N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <dlzc1(a)cox.net> wrote news:zs2wm.445251$Ta5.340035(a)newsfe15.iad... > Dear Szczepan: > > "Szczepan" <sz.bialek(a)wp.pl> wrote in message > news:h9phpg$nto$1(a)node1.news.atman.pl... >> >> "N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <dlzc1(a)cox.net> wrote >> news:3NOvm.1401$S_4.201(a)newsfe23.iad... >>> Dear Szczepan: >>> >>> "Szczepan" <sz.bialek(a)wp.pl> wrote in message >>> news:h9ntg5$ftr$1(a)node1.news.atman.pl... >>> ... >>>>> No, it is not. There is no sonic-driven bubble >>>>> formation/collapse. >>>> >>>> Bubble formation/collapse are at cavitation. There >>>> are also small sparks. Do you know why? >>> >>> Do you have a citation? They emit light, because, >>> among other things, the gas laws apply. As the >>> pressure increases, so does the temperature, until a plasma forms. (And >>> it is more complex than this.) >> >> Thinks are rather a little different and simple. >> In old explanations the cavitation damages were >> caused by collapsing. Now we know that the >> damages are caused by electrochemical corossion. > > Again, do you have a citation? Rather than answer a claim, you make > another one... It is not easy to find very old things. But the one is: http://www.springerlink.com/content/304g1j5n51145200/ "The proposed method of protecting impellers and turbine linings against cavitation, which involves painting them with a zinc paint and applying cathodic protection from an outside direct-current source," "a zinc paint and applying cathodic protection from an outside direct-current source," is against electrchemical corrosion. But is a publication made by people from Japan. They measured the voltages and the intensity of light. May be that I find it. SEE at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cavitation.jpg It is tipical electrochemical erosion. If you have possibility or opportunity to observe such demages you will see that they are in zone where the formation of bubbles take place. > >> In bubble formation zone the voltage decrease. >> In collpsing zone increase. The prssure has not >> to do here. >> >>>> "The bubbles are very small when they emit the >>>> light-about 1 micrometre in diameter-depending on the >>>> ambient fluid (e.g., water) and the gas content of the >>>> bubble (e.g., atmospheric air)." >>>> >>>> Sono- should be changed in waterluminescence. >>> >>> You should be charged admission. Do you think >>> sonoluminescence only occurs in water? It has >>> been seen to occur in silicone oil too. Probably more. >> >> May be fluidluminescence . Bat the best will be >> the bubbleluminescence. It is not important what >> cause the bubble formation/collapsing process. > > How about leaving the name alone, since it is common ground for the rest > of humanity, and your choices convey no more meaning? Of course. Many phenomenon have names from places where they were discovered. In nature it take place in clouds. > >>>>>> In idustry spark jumps between water and a metal. >>>>>> ECM heating. >>>>> >>>>> Plasma formation from electron bombardment is >>>>> significantly different than sonoluminescence. >>>> >>>> Each small spark is like light. >>> >>> Each light is not a spark. >> >> But here the electrons jump. > > If there is light, electrons jump. Say something meaningful. There no sophisticated phenomenon. Only the small electric sparks. Do you know why the voltages are different? S*
From: dlzc on 28 Sep 2009 14:59
Dear Szczepan: On Sep 28, 11:00 am, "Szczepan" <sz.bia...(a)wp.pl> wrote: > "N:dlzcD:aol T:com (dlzc)" <dl...(a)cox.net> wrotenews:zs2wm.445251$Ta5.340035(a)newsfe15.iad... > > "Szczepan" <sz.bia...(a)wp.pl> wrote in message > >news:h9phpg$nto$1(a)node1.news.atman.pl... > > >> "N:dlzcD:aol T:com (dlzc)" <dl...(a)cox.net> wrote > >>news:3NOvm.1401$S_4.201(a)newsfe23.iad... > >>> Dear Szczepan: > > >>> "Szczepan" <sz.bia...(a)wp.pl> wrote in message > >>>news:h9ntg5$ftr$1(a)node1.news.atman.pl... > >>> ... > >>>>> No, it is not. There is no sonic-driven bubble > >>>>> formation/collapse. > > >>>> Bubble formation/collapse are at cavitation. There > >>>> are also small sparks. Do you know why? > > >>> Do you have a citation? They emit light, because, > >>> among other things, the gas laws apply. As the > >>> pressure increases, so does the temperature, > >>> until a plasma forms. (And it is more complex > >>> than this.) > > >> Thinks are rather a little different and simple. > >> In old explanations the cavitation damages were > >> caused by collapsing. Now we know that the > >> damages are caused by electrochemical corossion. > > > Again, do you have a citation? Rather than > > answer a claim, you make another one... > > It is not easy to find very old things. But the one is: http://www.springerlink.com/content/304g1j5n51145200/ > > "The proposed method of protecting impellers and > turbine linings against cavitation, which involves > painting them with a zinc paint and applying > cathodic protection from an outside direct-current > source," > > "a zinc paint and applying cathodic protection > from an outside direct-current source," is against > electrchemical corrosion. Which means that the plasma oxidizes exposed metals, and the zinc (and potential) is applied to retain / reattach the base metal. This same thing is done in water / sewer lines, fence posts, and so on. Neither plasma nor electrical current here. > But is a publication made by people from Japan. > They measured the voltages and the intensity > of light. May be that I find it. > > SEE at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cavitation.jpg > > It is tipical electrochemical erosion. > If you have possibility or opportunity to observe > such demages you will see that they are in > zone where the formation of bubbles take place. Which does not support your claim of electrical spark. > >> In bubble formation zone the voltage decrease. > >> In collpsing zone increase. The prssure has not > >> to do here. > > >>>> "The bubbles are very small when they emit the > >>>> light-about 1 micrometre in diameter-depending on the > >>>> ambient fluid (e.g., water) and the gas content of the > >>>> bubble (e.g., atmospheric air)." > > >>>> Sono- should be changed in waterluminescence. > > >>> You should be charged admission. Do you think > >>> sonoluminescence only occurs in water? It has > >>> been seen to occur in silicone oil too. Probably more. > > >> May be fluidluminescence . Bat the best will be > >> the bubbleluminescence. It is not important what > >> cause the bubble formation/collapsing process. > > > How about leaving the name alone, since it is > > common ground for the rest of humanity, and > > your choices convey no more meaning? > > Of course. Many phenomenon have names from > places where they were discovered. In nature it > take place in clouds. No, it does not. It requires a fluid - gas interface, and high intensity sound. > >>>>>> In idustry spark jumps between water and a metal. > >>>>>> ECM heating. > > >>>>> Plasma formation from electron bombardment is > >>>>> significantly different than sonoluminescence. > > >>>> Each small spark is like light. > > >>> Each light is not a spark. > > >> But here the electrons jump. > > > If there is light, electrons jump. Say something > > meaningful. > > There no sophisticated phenomenon. Only the > small electric sparks. Do you know why the > voltages are different? What sparks? As to voltages, this corresponds to the average distance between "free" electrons. Think "piezoelectricity". David A. Smith |