the Modernization of Emacs
in [Lisp]
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From: Robert Bruce Carleton on 13 Apr 2006 13:18 Ari Johnson <iamtheari(a)gmail.com> writes: > Robert Strandh <strandh(a)labri.fr> writes: > > > Right. As you know, Climacs is a CLIM application and not an X11 > > application. Though you can argue that McCLIM is mostly an X11 > > application, so Climacs right now indirectly requires X11 as you have > > realized. However, I maintain that using CLIM as the interface > > substrate for Climacs was and is the right decision because it creates > > infrastructure that is useful elsewhere. We welcome more backends for > > McCLIM that will make Climacs and other CLIM applications useful on > > platforms that do not have X11, but as with most free software > > projects, we need help to do this. > > I would personally find it useful if Climacs had a non-graphical > interface, as does Emacs. However, I think that this feature would so > substantially get in the way of your actual project that I completely > understand why it is not a consideration. I guess I'm just jealous of > all the Linux people who have a free CLIM. :) I still make use of non-gui emacs all the time, particularly when bandwidth or latency challenged. I'm probably being old fashioned, but I'd like to see that kind of functionality continued. To me this discussion sounds sort of like comparing plan9 to unix. Many people think that plan9 is superior, to the point of plan9 functionality being ported into more mainstream unix-like systems. However, unix-like systems continue to work well enough to hold on to their "market share" of OS users and implementors. It seems to me that the same kind of thing is happening with emacs. Best regards, --Bruce -- Robert "Bruce" Carleton
From: Robert Uhl on 13 Apr 2006 15:44 Christophe Rhodes <csr21(a)cam.ac.uk> writes: > > "Tom Lord" <lord(a)emf.net> writes: > >> An obvious thing is an improved lisp (performance, dialect, modules, >> threads). One side effect should be less code not written in lisp. > > If Common Lisp is an improved lisp from your point of view, can I > encourage you to look at the Climacs project? IIRC, doesn't the Climacs project wish to avoid the path of emacs and instead focus simply on being a text editor? This wouldn't really jive with Mr. Lord's desire for a general-purpose application framework... -- Robert Uhl <http://public.xdi.org/=ruhl> We might have inherited the might of the British Navy, but everyone else seems to have inherited the class. --Tom Uhl, USN
From: Benjamin Teuber on 13 Apr 2006 16:17 Floyd L. Davidson wrote: > Tim X <timx(a)nospam.dev.null> wrote: >> What do you think of emacs 22 built with GTK rather than the older X >> libraries? Is that more what you would consider "modern" or does it >> have to be modern in the sense of MS Windows look and feel? I didn't see the GTK build yet - sounds nice... And of course I didn't talk about the latter... > That is exactly the point. These folks are defining *modern* to > be whatever it is they have already learned. Whether it is > better implemented, better planned, or better philosophically > has nothing to do with their complaint. Ha, it feels great to be put in your another-silly-emacs-critic-who-knows-nothing scheme... Although I wouldn't consider myself an expert, I use emacs for quite a while and I really love its power and extensibility. I don't want any f***in change to functionality - so stop your prejudices - just ugly scrollbars etc. are disturbing me a bit... > Which of course makes the complaint useless. The useless post was yours...
From: Robert Strandh on 13 Apr 2006 17:11 Ari Johnson <iamtheari(a)gmail.com> writes: > I would personally find it useful if Climacs had a non-graphical > interface, as does Emacs. However, I think that this feature would so > substantially get in the way of your actual project that I completely > understand why it is not a consideration. I guess I'm just jealous of > all the Linux people who have a free CLIM. :) Actually, a TTY backend for McCLIM has been considered, and I think that's the right way to get Climacs to run in an ordinary terminal or terminal emulator. -- Robert Strandh --------------------------------------------------------------------- Greenspun's Tenth Rule of Programming: any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad hoc informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of Common Lisp. ---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Robert Strandh on 13 Apr 2006 17:13
Robert Bruce Carleton <rbc(a)hakuhale.net> writes: > I still make use of non-gui emacs all the time, particularly when > bandwidth or latency challenged. I'm probably being old fashioned, > but I'd like to see that kind of functionality continued. I agree, and I use Emacs like that all the time, in particular for reading my email at a distance. -- Robert Strandh --------------------------------------------------------------------- Greenspun's Tenth Rule of Programming: any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad hoc informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of Common Lisp. --------------------------------------------------------------------- |