8 bit microcontroller market
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From: Jim Granville on 30 Aug 2006 15:47 Robert_Teufel wrote: > Ian Bell wrote: > >>I am trying to get a handle on the current (or at least fairly recent) 8 bit >>microcontroller market. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence around, >>usually to show a particular manufacturer in a favourable light but apart >>from spending several grand on a marketing report I have been unable to >>find a set of basic figures for recent years. There are broad figures up to >>2000 in the FAQ but nothing more detailed or recent. >> >>Any ideas where this can be found at little or no cost. I am thinking market >>share by value, shipments and processor type - that sort of thing. >> >>Ian > > > Hi Ian, > > first of all, I appreciate your contributions to this group, that's why > I will take a few minutes and try to answer your question to the best > of my abilities. > I work for a company that manufactures 8051 derivatives and we follow > the market all the time and I try to keep this as unbiased as possible. > The leader in units is Microchip, accounting for all the PIC1x devices. > The leader in Dollar volume is probably still Freescale (latest data I > have is 2004), including ancient devices such as the HC05, all 08 > devices, HC11 and may be some more. Plus Renasas and NEC are 'regrouping' :) Zilog is doing some smart things... > The 8051 claims to to have the widest coverage of applications or in > other words, most designs of all 8-bits. > The AVR does not make it into this most... list, yet but it is > definitely a another "force" in the 8-bit. > Going with any of these architectures should be fairly save for years > to come. At least it will not force you to switch architectures, > nevertheless, devices will be discontinued as older manufacturing > processes become unavailable and the design can not easily be > transferred to newer technologies. E.g. I would be very reluctant to > use a 5V device that has been on the market for several years, as 5V > compatible processes are approaching the end of their life-cycle. There > are (somewhat expensive) options to make a newer process 5V compatible > but this requires a significant redesign. Hmm, this last claim I would not agree with. Yes, processes move ahead, but killing 5V is the lazy option for a chip designer - market demand is seeing a resurgence of 5V devices. These new devices may have sub-5V cores, but that is largely hidden from the designer. Some recent real-world examples : New SiLabs C8051F41x : 50MHz device, in shrink process, but 5V Vcc New Freescale RS08 : Wide Vcc, with 'invisible' regulator New Infineon XC88x : Wide Vcc, on chip regulator. New Atmel, Winbond devices : All Wide Vcc A number of 5V ARM devices are appearing, with focus in Automotive. Some suppliers have 3.3V cores, and 5V compliant IOs, but that is starting to look dated. Those with cores that need multiple external regulators, in the microcontroller segment, are looking around nervously. On Chip debug is the other new trend. This is now common even on the "comfortably sub $1" devices. -jg
From: Ian Bell on 30 Aug 2006 16:00 Robert_Teufel wrote: > Ian Bell wrote: >> I am trying to get a handle on the current (or at least fairly recent) 8 >> bit microcontroller market. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence around, >> usually to show a particular manufacturer in a favourable light but apart >> from spending several grand on a marketing report I have been unable to >> find a set of basic figures for recent years. There are broad figures up >> to 2000 in the FAQ but nothing more detailed or recent. >> >> Any ideas where this can be found at little or no cost. I am thinking >> market share by value, shipments and processor type - that sort of thing. >> >> Ian > > Hi Ian, > > first of all, I appreciate your contributions to this group, that's why > I will take a few minutes and try to answer your question to the best > of my abilities. That's very kind. > I work for a company that manufactures 8051 derivatives and we follow > the market all the time and I try to keep this as unbiased as possible. > The leader in units is Microchip, accounting for all the PIC1x devices. I have heard this anecdote several times (on the web) but it is always unqualified. Does it mean Microchip shipped more 8 bitters than any other single 8 bit manufacturer? if it does it tells only part of the story - or does it mean more PICs were shipped than any other type of 8 bit micro - a totaly different statistic. I suspect there are still more 8051 derivatives shipped than PICs for example but I need some way to get these figures. > The leader in Dollar volume is probably still Freescale (latest data I > have is 2004), including ancient devices such as the HC05, all 08 > devices, HC11 and may be some more. They have been for some time; plenty of anecdotal evidence of that. > The 8051 claims to to have the widest coverage of applications or in > other words, most designs of all 8-bits. Does it? Where is this written? > The AVR does not make it into this most... list, yet but it is > definitely a another "force" in the 8-bit. Interesting because I found a news item from just a few years ago that claimed the AVR had 30% of the 8 bit market. > Going with any of these architectures should be fairly save for years > to come. Now at least two people have misunderstood my question. Perhaps I did not explain myself well enough. I am not trying to make a design decision. it's just you hear all sorts of anecdotes about the relative sizes of 8,16 and 32 bit markets, who has what share of which by volume, by value and so on but I am trying to get a consolidated picture of this. Market research companies create reports providing this info but the cost thousands of dollars. Thanks for your input Robert. IAn
From: Ian Bell on 30 Aug 2006 16:07 Bill Giovino wrote: > Except for companies where the 8-bit is their primary company strategy > (like Microchip), there is a subtle defocusing of 8-bit from the major > players in order to make room in the fab for higher margin parts. The real > growth for embedded systems is in low-power 16-bit processors. > > But really, the answer to your question all depends on what you want the > data for. Are you looking to serve a market with tools, compilers, > services, etc. or are you planning a new microcontroller introduction? Are > you looking at competitive or non-competitive cores and markets? You have > to treat the 8051 separately because it is less an 8-bit product, rather, > it is a separate market segment. These are all important issues. > > Regards, > > Bill Giovino Thanks for your input Bill. I want the information simply to satisfy my curiosity. Are there really more PICs made a year than 8051 derivatives? Or does Motorola still head the 8 bit pack. It is said that more 8 bitters are used in Japan than anywhere else - so how many and what type? Just how many of each are made? How many AVRs etc etc? What proportion (by number by value) is the 8, 16 and 32 bit segments and how have these changed over the years? and so on. The last publicly available data for rough market breakdown is for 1990 to 2000 and is: WorldWide Microcontroller Shipments (in millions of dollars) '90 '91 '92 '93 '94 '95 '96 '97 '98 '99 '00 4-bit 1,393 1,597 1,596 1,698 1,761 1,826 1,849 1,881 1,856 1,816 1,757 8-bit 2,077 2,615 2,862 3,703 4,689 5,634 6,553 7,529 8,423 9,219 9,715 16-bit 192 303 340 484 810 1,170 1,628 2,191 2,969 3,678 4,405 WorldWide Microcontroller Shipments (in Millions) '90 '91 '92 '93 '94 '95 '96 '97 '98 '99 '00 4-bit 778 906 979 1036 1063 1110 1100 1096 1064 1025 970 8-bit 588 753 843 1073 1449 1803 2123 2374 2556 2681 2700 16-bit 22 38 45 59 106 157 227 313 419 501 585 What has happened since? Ian
From: Ian Bell on 30 Aug 2006 15:51 Eric wrote: > Ian Bell wrote: >> I am trying to get a handle on the current (or at least fairly recent) 8 >> bit microcontroller market. > > The market has become more specialized in recent years, and it's hard > to make generalizations about which maker is the cheapest, or the best > able to fill orders, etc. > I think you misunderstand the question. I am not trying to make a design choice. I am interested in the market share of the different types, makes, models and suppliers. Ian
From: Jim Granville on 30 Aug 2006 20:30
Ian Bell wrote: > Thanks for your input Bill. I want the information simply to satisfy my > curiosity. Are there really more PICs made a year than 8051 derivatives? Or > does Motorola still head the 8 bit pack. It is said that more 8 bitters > are used in Japan than anywhere else - so how many and what type? Just how > many of each are made? How many AVRs etc etc? What proportion (by number by > value) is the 8, 16 and 32 bit segments and how have these changed over the > years? and so on. The last publicly available data for rough market > breakdown is for 1990 to 2000 and is: > > WorldWide Microcontroller Shipments (in millions of dollars) > > '90 '91 '92 '93 '94 '95 '96 '97 '98 '99 '00 > 4-bit 1,393 1,597 1,596 1,698 1,761 1,826 1,849 1,881 1,856 1,816 1,757 > 8-bit 2,077 2,615 2,862 3,703 4,689 5,634 6,553 7,529 8,423 9,219 9,715 > 16-bit 192 303 340 484 810 1,170 1,628 2,191 2,969 3,678 4,405 > > > WorldWide Microcontroller Shipments (in Millions) > > '90 '91 '92 '93 '94 '95 '96 '97 '98 '99 '00 > 4-bit 778 906 979 1036 1063 1110 1100 1096 1064 1025 970 > 8-bit 588 753 843 1073 1449 1803 2123 2374 2556 2681 2700 > 16-bit 22 38 45 59 106 157 227 313 419 501 585 > > What has happened since? Google for Microcontroller market share, and you'll find many snippets. Usually from some company claiming they have gained on the pack.... eg August 2005 "... 32-bit market -- a market Sanghi estimates is worth $3 billion a year. The 8-bit microcontroller market, in contrast, is now hovering around $5 billion a year." Also, annual reports have good info, where you can work out ASPs and run rates. These can also "reality check" some of the boasting, and some of the claims out there do not survive this audit trail! [ Companies accountants are more carefull with numbers, than the marketdroids ! ] eg Microchips Average Selling price still hovers close to $1, whilst Freescales 8 bit ASP is much higher. Thus even the 8 bit market, has some quite separate separate sectors. There is also confusion over what is uC, DSP and what is 16/32 bit, and should smart cards belong in uC sector, and if so, under which size ? These days, a sales breakdown by pin-count, and on-chip memory would be more usefull, than someone's pigenhole tag. -jg |