Advice to BSEE juniors and seniors...
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From: D Yuniskis on 19 Apr 2010 09:38 Hi Terry, TerryKing wrote: > These are good indicators of many of the other issues: >>> 3. Do they Build things - figuring out how things work. > Everything from their car to how an appliance works. They must have > the "I'll be dipped if I would pay someone a dime to do something I > can figure out myself" attitude. Well, there are many things that I *know* I can't "fix". But, that doesn't stop me from poking around inside to see how things *work*. I.e., "It's already broken, what have I got to lose??" OTOH, I also have a history of taking things apart that *aren't* broken -- *yet*! :> My father enjoys retelling stories of how I "broke" his 3 day old car as a child by defeating the interlocks that prevented the electric window from being raised while the door (tailgate) was open -- and swearing that he was never able to get the rattle out of that door as a result. :-/ >> 5. Try to assess how "multi-dimensional" the applicant >> is. Is he/she a "one-trick pony" who will help solve some >> *particular* need of your organization? Or, can he apply >> ideas from one technology/area to other areas to give you >> "future benefits" as your needs evolve. > > I believe all the really interesting and challenging designs / > projects are multidisciplinary. I would ask, "If we need you to do a > design with some analog, digital, microcontroller and probably DSP > components, applied to an area that you have no background in, such as > real-time analysis of Volcanic Ash and Smoke from an airplane, how > would you go about learning about the new area?? I don't think it even has to go that far. I.e., he needn't be expert (or even *competent*!) in all those fields. Rather, he should at least be *conversant*. He should be able to understand the *types* of issues that those around him are facing (mechanical engineers, industrial designers, etc) and able to see how *his* field and skillset could be brought to bear on solving or *morphing* their problems to more manageable solutions. E.g., I was involved in the design of a printer that employed thermal dye transfer technology (basically, a sheet "ribbon" that was coated with ink-impregnated wax which was selectively melted and then fused to the paper). Detecting "end of ribbon roll" was being done with an optical switch. This posed a problem for the user as he would have to thread the ribbon through the optical switch when replacing the ribbon. Another individual on the team was designing the "take up motor" drive system (constant torque on the ribbon). In our weekly review, I pointedly asked him: - "What would happen if the load on the takeup motor eased?" - "My servo drives the motor harder until it 'felt' the same load" - - - "And, if the load disappeared entirely?" - "The servo would drive the motor to the limits of the supply *looking* for that same 'feel'" - "So, if the ribbon were to deliberately fall off the *supply* spool -- say, AT THE END OF RIBBON -- then all we have to do is wait for your motor to start freewheeling to sense that fact... which we can do with a simple comparator looking at the drive voltage across the motor..." I.e., I was responsible for neither the mechanical design of the switch nor the electrical design of the takeup motor yet could bring some insight to bear on how the two could be related. Too many folks tend to become "expert" in just one discipline and never get the vision to see beyond. "If all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail". > I'd want to hear a mixture of online, database, library, usenet, PLUS > "I'd walk down the hall and talk to people and ask their advice". > They have to be able to personally CONNECT, not sit in an office. > > And I'd ask, "What did you build yourself when you were 10 years old? > What did you learn on your own when you were 12 years old? What stuff > did you drive around and buy when you were 17 years old? If you had 4 > weeks off to do some personal project, what would it be? There are some firms who give time off regularly for folks to pursue outside interests (well, not really time *off* but, rather, time when you don't have to be working on your "assigned" project). Some folks advocate taking a year off every decade or so (!) > I'd ask, If you come up with a proposal for a solution, and some one > says, "You're just naive about this", is that Good or Bad?? > > Sigh.. Last night I led a meeting to organize a "Community Workshop" > group at a huge new University in the Middle East (http:// > www.kaust.edu.sa). > Like this: http://kcomm.wikispaces.com/CommunityWorkShop > > Not too great a turnout.. And where were the enthusiastic guys from? > The guy who had spent a day searching through Jeddah, with no Arabic, > finally finding 4 shops with actual component-level parts and chips: > (Bangladesh). The guy who showed us intricate wood carvings, with > real artistic merit: ( Pakistan). The guy who is building MEMS > motors, but waiting for that critial machine: (Britain). The guy who > is laying out and ordering installing all the core Lab equipment, CNC > machine shop, Glass Shop, etc. who is forcing machines through Saudi > customs, marking the mounting holes on the floor, asking us what CAD > software we want on the lab computers: (China). <grin> We spent the night dining with a guy who makes fine furniture (oriental look) by hand (no power tools). Exquisite designs. All are "gifts" (non-commercial). Interesting to see how he decides what to make, how to "finish" it, etc. > Which country removed the shops from most of it's high schools in the > 90's, reallocating those resources to Computer Literacy, with classes > labeled "Technology" in which our sons and daughters learn how to use > Microsoft Office. (USA). Apparently, many of the "standards" that we (I) grew up with in school are no longer present. E.g., math, science, "english" and phys ed every year. American history every two years (world history other years). "shop"/drafting. Even the "art"/music classes. I wonder how kids actually *do* occupy their days? Note how many can't make change for a dollar :< > GGrrrrr..... > > This Summer I'm building a metalworking Forge with my Grandchildren... Cool! I'm hoping to get my niece and nephew involved in replacing their kitchen sink, fixing the damage to the ceiling and tuckpointing their chimney (I suspect my sister will complain about that last -- since they're only 8 years old and it's a long way to the ground from the chimney! :> ) *Your* challenge will be to see what sorts of possible uses your grandkids might conceive of for that forge!
From: D Yuniskis on 19 Apr 2010 09:41 Hi Brent, brent wrote: > On Apr 19, 4:30 am, TerryKing <te...(a)terryking.us> wrote: >> These are good indicators of many of the other issues:>> 3. Do they Build things - figuring out how things work. >> >> Everything from their car to how an appliance works. They must have >> the "I'll be dipped if I would pay someone a dime to do something I >> can figure out myself" attitude. >> >>>> 5. Try to assess how "multi-dimensional" the applicant >> is. Is he/she a "one-trick pony" who will help solve some >> *particular* need of your organization? Or, can he apply >> ideas from one technology/area to other areas to give you >> "future benefits" as your needs evolve. >> >> I believe all the really interesting and challenging designs / >> projects are multidisciplinary. I would ask, "If we need you to do a >> design with some analog, digital, microcontroller and probably DSP >> components, applied to an area that you have no background in, such as >> real-time analysis of Volcanic Ash and Smoke from an airplane, how >> would you go about learning about the new area?? >> >> I'd want to hear a mixture of online, database, library, usenet, PLUS >> "I'd walk down the hall and talk to people and ask their advice". >> They have to be able to personally CONNECT, not sit in an office. >> >> And I'd ask, "What did you build yourself when you were 10 years old? > > I would have answered that I can tell you all the stuff I broke by the > time I was ten : > > A microphone, A television set, a speaker, and I blew out a > transformer by putting a switch in my radio to turn the light out at > night (I simply shorted the bulb out - haha) <grin> When I was 6 or 7, I fried my first "crystal set". "How can I make this thing LOUDER? Hmmm... two wires coming out of it. Two *holes* in that wall socket. I wonder... <pzzzt> Mom, can you come here for a minute?" > OK, I was building plastic models I guess.
From: Joerg on 20 Apr 2010 09:30 miso(a)sushi.com wrote: > On Apr 19, 6:51 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> Phil Hobbs wrote: >>> mpm wrote: >>>> On Apr 19, 2:40 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>> Nico Coesel wrote: >>>>>> Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> Nico Coesel wrote: >>>>>>>> chris w <ch...(a)smartjack.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> I've been interviewing a few new BSEE graduates for a junior >>>>>>>>> engineer >>>>>>>>> position, and based strictly on what we're looking for, here is some >>>>>>>>> random advice to juniors/seniors: >>>>>>>>> Get some experience with current microcontrollers. I have a >>>>>>>>> preference for Microchip, but Atmel or an ARM variant would also be >>>>>>>>> good. I know teaching the 68HC11 still has value, but knowing parts >>>>>>>> Most of the basics are still the same. >>>>>>>>> Networking is important. Lots of new products these day have some >>>>>>>>> connection to the Internet. Understand TCP/IP and ethernet. MAC >>>>>>>>> addresses, netmasks, ARP, default routes, NAT... Even getting into >>>>>>>>> the upper layers might be good, especially HTTP. >>>>>>>>> Linux would be nice to know. Embedded Linux continues to grow. >>>>>>>>> Knowing how to compile a linux kernel, build a file system, or >>>>>>>>> whatever would be a useful skill. >>>>>>>> Engineers who know about analog design, programming, digital >>>>>>>> circuitry >>>>>>>> (programmabe logic / FPGA perhaps), Linux and networking are very >>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>> scarse. Usually an engineer masters a few areas. The biggest >>>>>>>> challenge >>>>>>>> is to put a good team together. >>>>>>> I never had a problem putting teams together. BUT, the average age of >>>>>>> such teams was usually well over 40. Companies that think that >>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>> over 35 is past prime are going to face one project failure after >>>>>>> another. >>>>>> I agree altough its nice to have some youngsters around. We have some >>>>>> interns working at my employer at the moment. They usually come up >>>>>> with interesting ideas and new methods. One of them brought quite a >>>>>> handy logic analyzer: >>>>>> http://www.zeroplus.com.tw/logic-analyzer_en/products.php?pdn=1&produ.... >>>>> Oh yeah, young people have fresh ideas and we also have an obligation to >>>>> groom the next generation. It makes no sense if we design cool stuff, >>>>> some day end up in a nursing home and then ... poof ... it's all gone. >>>>> What frustrates me at times is how quickly young folks give up when they >>>>> don't immediately understand a circuit. Once I had an intern sit in on >>>>> one of my design reviews. From the facial expressions it became clear >>>>> that the other guys (none of them being from the analog world) >>>>> understood the stuff but the intern absolutely didn't. So afterwards I >>>>> offered to explain in detail, and that I wouldn't bill the client for >>>>> the time that would take. The answer was "no thanks, this stuff is way >>>>> over my head" :-( >>>>> -- >>>>> Regards, Joerg >>>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>>>> Use another domain or send PM.- Hide quoted text - >>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>> I must admit, waaay back in the day, for the life of me I could not >>>> understand how a four-quandrant multiplier worked. >>>> I knew how to test it, and tell when it wasn't working, but to say I >>>> truly understood it -- nope. >>>> Still not sure I do, honestly. (?) It was an IC we used in a video >>>> application. Would have been 1985-ish? >>>> The Sr. Engineer did exactly as you say. >>>> He handed me some materials, and a working circuit, and pointed me to >>>> the corner for awhile. >>>> I guess I just had a total mental block, because we finally gave up. >>>> It was enough (for the intern position I had at the time) to just be >>>> able to detect when things weren't working. >>>> Did not really NEED to know precisely why. >>>> -mpm >>> I don't know if it can be taught, but it can certainly be strangled at >>> birth by too much empty praise and too much entertainment. >> Much more dangerous: Entitlements and pampering to the hilt. When I >> needed anything fancy in electronics I had to work my butt off to be >> able to buy it. Meat factory and similar pleasant jobs. Today's kids get >> cell phones, TVs, gadgets, even whole cars with doing anything. So often >> they just don't do anything. >> >> In hindsight I am thankful to my dad that he did not simply plunk down >> $400 so I could buy a used ham radio transceiver. I had to earn every >> penny of that in a factory during school break. There was a clear >> choice: Having fun and not being able to buy the thing, or working and >> being able to. >> >>> Ever since I was a kid, I haven't been able stand to be unclear in my >>> mind about things I care about--it affects me like having a pebble in my >>> shoe. I also am not satisfied by making up something plausible...I have >>> to kick all four tires good and hard, and am still on the lookout for >>> reasons that I might be wrong about it. >>> I remember wanting to build a tube-type audio amplifier (about 1970, >>> when I was about 11) and while I could wire one up correctly, I couldn't >>> figure out how to design it, and that made me *nuts*. I went away and >>> read and thought, and after awhile I could do it. (Most of the reading >>> was data books and app notes, plus various ARRL handbooks.) >> With my first tube amp I made a hole in the ceiling plaster. Found out >> the hard way there there is such a thing as ESR for capacitors. Of >> course, I absolutely had to have the biggest honking tube amp the town >> had ever seen and at around a kilowatt one of the electrolytics decided >> to take a hike. I could only afford 15 of those and I guess that was a >> bit skimpy. >> >>> That attribute and a lively curiosity has taken me to some pretty >>> interesting places in technology, among other things. If you have a kid >>> that refuses to give up, don't entertain him, challenge him. >> Certainly true. >> >> -- >> Regards, Joerg >> >> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >> >> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >> Use another domain or send PM. > > The only problem with ARRL text is they are not all that disciplined. > AM sort of equals double sideband in their book. Little stuff like > that annoys me. Ok, they may not always be academically correct. However, I learned a heck of a lot more about real RF design out of that $6 book than at the university. The occasional imprecision does not annoy me. They always had ways to explain stuff in half a sentence and you'd immediately get it. Like the clear button: "This is the I didn't mean to press that button button". Still have it. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Joel Koltner on 19 Apr 2010 11:42 Good stuff, Chris, although I'll make a few comments... "chris w" <chris(a)smartjack.com> wrote in message news:a841c586-06cc-4829-be64-3db1227ae18f(a)11g2000yqr.googlegroups.com... > I > think you're much more likely to use something like Altium than Spice > or Matlab (which are also good to know). This depends largely on just what kind of engineer you think you want to be. For many digital guys, yeah, SPICE and Matlab don't get much use... but for analog guys, SPICE is obviously quite common. Matlab is more for, e.g., DSP guys, although I think the analog guys can also save time at least using, e.g., MathCAD. > Which brings me to my next suggestion-- do some hobby projects on your > own. Yes, absolutely. > Learn how to solder. ....unless you really want to be strictly a software guy... :-) Oddly, I've worked at places where the "engineers" were strongly *discouraged* from picking up a soldering iron because, "we have techs for that." Yeah, and there was a time before word processors where writing up a memo used done by chief engineers either because "they had secretaries for that." > Get some experience with current microcontrollers. I tend to agree, even for analog-types, if only in that hybrid digital/analog systems are ubiquitous today. > Networking is important. Well, if your job involves software, yeah... you again seem to be heavily leaning towards people wanting to do embedded digital stuff here... > Linux would be nice to know. Embedded Linux continues to grow. > Knowing how to compile a linux kernel, build a file system, or > whatever would be a useful skill. OK, knowing how to compile a linux Kernel is something I suspect that *well* under 1% of currently practicing engineers could do for you -- you're starting to get pretty nichey here. ---Joel
From: Joel Koltner on 19 Apr 2010 11:48
"D Yuniskis" <not.going.to.be(a)seen.com> wrote in message news:hqg4vf$967$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... > Do they > bombard me with "Why would you want to do that?" (which > I see as a stalling tactic -- "Why do *I* have to justify > an approach to you? *You* are the one being tasked with > the problem"...) You're probably right about this, although keep in mind that some applicants might have already had experience with customers where there's often a huge difference between what they initially *ask* you to do and what they *really ned*. Asking, "why would you want to do that?" can help to ferret out what they *really* want and make for a much better working relationship (although the phrasing could certainly be better). Indeed, I'd be quite leery of any engineer who just goes off and takes a customer request completely at face value if some of the specs included are very challenging/time consuming for no clear reason. (Remember what they tell you about the GRE? "Hand questions have hard answers?" -- It's kind of the same way, "Hard engineering tasks should be due to having an actual hard problems!") > I am frequently disturbed by how often folks pawn off > the works of others as their own. :-) I recall a resume where a guy claimed to have extensive experiences with "Xylinx FPGAs." Um hmm. Sureeeee you did... ---Joel |