Advice to BSEE juniors and seniors...
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From: Nico Coesel on 19 Apr 2010 17:23 Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >Nico Coesel wrote: >> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> Nico Coesel wrote: >>>> chris w <chris(a)smartjack.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I've been interviewing a few new BSEE graduates for a junior engineer >>>>> position, and based strictly on what we're looking for, here is some >>>>> random advice to juniors/seniors: >>>>> >>>>> Get some experience with current microcontrollers. I have a >>>>> preference for Microchip, but Atmel or an ARM variant would also be >>>>> good. I know teaching the 68HC11 still has value, but knowing parts >>>> Most of the basics are still the same. >>>> >>>>> Networking is important. Lots of new products these day have some >>>>> connection to the Internet. Understand TCP/IP and ethernet. MAC >>>>> addresses, netmasks, ARP, default routes, NAT... Even getting into >>>>> the upper layers might be good, especially HTTP. >>>>> >>>>> Linux would be nice to know. Embedded Linux continues to grow. >>>>> Knowing how to compile a linux kernel, build a file system, or >>>>> whatever would be a useful skill. >>>> Engineers who know about analog design, programming, digital circuitry >>>> (programmabe logic / FPGA perhaps), Linux and networking are very very >>>> scarse. Usually an engineer masters a few areas. The biggest challenge >>>> is to put a good team together. >>>> >>> I never had a problem putting teams together. BUT, the average age of >>> such teams was usually well over 40. Companies that think that everyone >>> over 35 is past prime are going to face one project failure after another. >> >> I agree altough its nice to have some youngsters around. We have some >> interns working at my employer at the moment. They usually come up >> with interesting ideas and new methods. One of them brought quite a >> handy logic analyzer: >> http://www.zeroplus.com.tw/logic-analyzer_en/products.php?pdn=1&product_id=93 >> > >Oh yeah, young people have fresh ideas and we also have an obligation to >groom the next generation. It makes no sense if we design cool stuff, >some day end up in a nursing home and then ... poof ... it's all gone. > >What frustrates me at times is how quickly young folks give up when they >don't immediately understand a circuit. Once I had an intern sit in on Thats something to keep an eye on. I just had one of the interns chase a problem on a digital board. In the end it turned out to be a problem in a connector (much to my surprise as well!) but it was an interesting problem. It does take some coaching to guide someone through a fault-finding process. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico(a)nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joerg on 19 Apr 2010 17:26 Joel Koltner wrote: > "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message > news:833su1Fk0eU2(a)mid.individual.net... >> It has another shortcoming and that one is way more serious: No VBA. > > http://www.linux.com/archive/feed/58348 ??? > The fairly recent version I have (2.3.0) and also a newer one does have some support. But it doesn't run all of it. The help file explains how to parse for basic lines that have been disabled and need to be re-written. That can end up in a lot of grunt work. Considering that older MS-Office licenses aren't terribly expensive I rather shell out the dough :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: mpm on 19 Apr 2010 17:28 On Apr 19, 3:50 pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...(a)seen.com> wrote: > Hi Joerg, > > Joerg wrote: > > What I find sad is not the lack of knowledge since that can be fixed. > > What is sad is the lack of interest to invest the effort, in getting to > > know complicated stuff. > > *This*, IMO, is the real problem. To many, "it's just a job > (paycheck)... a way to get money to do what you *really* want to > do (tweet your friends at all hours of the day/night)". There > is an "engineering mindset" that seems to have gone away. > These folks could just as easily be accountants or BEE KEEPERS. > They aren't motivated by the challenge but, rather, by the > paycheck -- "How little do I have to do in order to get paid?" > > Unfortunately, I don't know how much of that is a generational > perspective -- did my folks say that about *my* generation? > (though I seem to remember people my age could at least 'make > change for a dollar' :-/ ) My (previous) point exactly. It really is just a job, and a contract job at that. Not a career. Where is the incentive to hone the engineering mindset, if by all accounts, your next project employer won't care?
From: Joerg on 19 Apr 2010 17:31 Jim Thompson wrote: > On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 13:29:24 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> miso(a)sushi.com wrote: >>> On Apr 19, 12:40 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> Nico Coesel wrote: >>>>> Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> Nico Coesel wrote: >>>>>>> chris w <ch...(a)smartjack.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> I've been interviewing a few new BSEE graduates for a junior engineer >>>>>>>> position, and based strictly on what we're looking for, here is some >>>>>>>> random advice to juniors/seniors: >>>>>>>> Get some experience with current microcontrollers. I have a >>>>>>>> preference for Microchip, but Atmel or an ARM variant would also be >>>>>>>> good. I know teaching the 68HC11 still has value, but knowing parts >>>>>>> Most of the basics are still the same. >>>>>>>> Networking is important. Lots of new products these day have some >>>>>>>> connection to the Internet. Understand TCP/IP and ethernet. MAC >>>>>>>> addresses, netmasks, ARP, default routes, NAT... Even getting into >>>>>>>> the upper layers might be good, especially HTTP. >>>>>>>> Linux would be nice to know. Embedded Linux continues to grow. >>>>>>>> Knowing how to compile a linux kernel, build a file system, or >>>>>>>> whatever would be a useful skill. >>>>>>> Engineers who know about analog design, programming, digital circuitry >>>>>>> (programmabe logic / FPGA perhaps), Linux and networking are very very >>>>>>> scarse. Usually an engineer masters a few areas. The biggest challenge >>>>>>> is to put a good team together. >>>>>> I never had a problem putting teams together. BUT, the average age of >>>>>> such teams was usually well over 40. Companies that think that everyone >>>>>> over 35 is past prime are going to face one project failure after another. >>>>> I agree altough its nice to have some youngsters around. We have some >>>>> interns working at my employer at the moment. They usually come up >>>>> with interesting ideas and new methods. One of them brought quite a >>>>> handy logic analyzer: >>>>> http://www.zeroplus.com.tw/logic-analyzer_en/products.php?pdn=1&produ... >>>> Oh yeah, young people have fresh ideas and we also have an obligation to >>>> groom the next generation. It makes no sense if we design cool stuff, >>>> some day end up in a nursing home and then ... poof ... it's all gone. >>>> >>>> What frustrates me at times is how quickly young folks give up when they >>>> don't immediately understand a circuit. Once I had an intern sit in on >>>> one of my design reviews. From the facial expressions it became clear >>>> that the other guys (none of them being from the analog world) >>>> understood the stuff but the intern absolutely didn't. So afterwards I >>>> offered to explain in detail, and that I wouldn't bill the client for >>>> the time that would take. The answer was "no thanks, this stuff is way >>>> over my head" :-( >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Regards, Joerg >>>> >>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >>>> >>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>>> Use another domain or send PM. >>> Now that is sad, but you have to realize they don't teach much analog >>> these days. Even classic control theory is glossed over for digital >>> control. The problem is some systems (amplifiers for instance) need a >>> knowledge of classical control theory. >>> >> This was a switcher. A bit unorthodox but not complicated, in essence >> regular PWM stuff. >> >> I know universities are letting people down these days when it comes to >> analog know-how. However, back when I was a kid at around 15, a TV >> technician in our ham radio club offered to teach a crash course on how >> a color TV works. About two dozen signed up, half of them under 20. We >> sat there with wide open eyes, gobbling up all the info, asking >> questions, and so on. He was an excellent teacher, I understood the >> stuff, and from then on felt comfortable repairing color TV sets. >> >> What I find sad is not the lack of knowledge since that can be fixed. >> What is sad is the lack of interest to invest the effort, in getting to >> know complicated stuff. > > Around 1970, I couldn't find a technician to hire. Offered to teach a > course for free at Scottsdale Community College. Declined. Even > though I already had my MSEE, I had no teaching certification :-( > Yep, red tape. Credentials and all that non-essential stuff. If someone wouldn't have the skills to teach a class he would hardly apply, or at least wouldn't last. I've never really understood what good that does, and probably never will. Probably good old turf protection. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: mpm on 19 Apr 2010 17:31
On Apr 19, 2:40 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > Nico Coesel wrote: > > Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > > >> Nico Coesel wrote: > >>> chris w <ch...(a)smartjack.com> wrote: > > >>>> I've been interviewing a few new BSEE graduates for a junior engineer > >>>> position, and based strictly on what we're looking for, here is some > >>>> random advice to juniors/seniors: > > >>>> Get some experience with current microcontrollers. I have a > >>>> preference for Microchip, but Atmel or an ARM variant would also be > >>>> good. I know teaching the 68HC11 still has value, but knowing parts > >>> Most of the basics are still the same. > > >>>> Networking is important. Lots of new products these day have some > >>>> connection to the Internet. Understand TCP/IP and ethernet. MAC > >>>> addresses, netmasks, ARP, default routes, NAT... Even getting into > >>>> the upper layers might be good, especially HTTP. > > >>>> Linux would be nice to know. Embedded Linux continues to grow. > >>>> Knowing how to compile a linux kernel, build a file system, or > >>>> whatever would be a useful skill. > >>> Engineers who know about analog design, programming, digital circuitry > >>> (programmabe logic / FPGA perhaps), Linux and networking are very very > >>> scarse. Usually an engineer masters a few areas. The biggest challenge > >>> is to put a good team together. > > >> I never had a problem putting teams together. BUT, the average age of > >> such teams was usually well over 40. Companies that think that everyone > >> over 35 is past prime are going to face one project failure after another. > > > I agree altough its nice to have some youngsters around. We have some > > interns working at my employer at the moment. They usually come up > > with interesting ideas and new methods. One of them brought quite a > > handy logic analyzer: > >http://www.zeroplus.com.tw/logic-analyzer_en/products.php?pdn=1&produ.... > > Oh yeah, young people have fresh ideas and we also have an obligation to > groom the next generation. It makes no sense if we design cool stuff, > some day end up in a nursing home and then ... poof ... it's all gone. > > What frustrates me at times is how quickly young folks give up when they > don't immediately understand a circuit. Once I had an intern sit in on > one of my design reviews. From the facial expressions it became clear > that the other guys (none of them being from the analog world) > understood the stuff but the intern absolutely didn't. So afterwards I > offered to explain in detail, and that I wouldn't bill the client for > the time that would take. The answer was "no thanks, this stuff is way > over my head" :-( > > -- > Regards, Joerg > > http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > > "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > Use another domain or send PM.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I must admit, waaay back in the day, for the life of me I could not understand how a four-quandrant multiplier worked. I knew how to test it, and tell when it wasn't working, but to say I truly understood it -- nope. Still not sure I do, honestly. (?) It was an IC we used in a video application. Would have been 1985-ish? The Sr. Engineer did exactly as you say. He handed me some materials, and a working circuit, and pointed me to the corner for awhile. I guess I just had a total mental block, because we finally gave up. It was enough (for the intern position I had at the time) to just be able to detect when things weren't working. Did not really NEED to know precisely why. -mpm |