Anitmatter in Thunderbolts??
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From: FrediFizzx on 26 Nov 2009 20:40 "eric gisse" <jowr.pi.nospam(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:hemtqt$p5r$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > funkenstein wrote: > >> > http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/49288/title/Signature_of_antimatter_detected_in_lightning >> >> anybody have any clue what's going on here? Thanks :) > > My money is on pair production via the intense electric field that is > generated briefly at the strike point. What is the electric field strength of that case? Can it be high enough for the Schwinger mechanism? If so, then this could be good evidence that the Schwinger mechanism is correct. Best, Fred Diether moderator sci.physics.foundations
From: dlzc on 26 Nov 2009 22:01 Dear "FrediFizzx": On Nov 26, 6:40 pm, "FrediFizzx" <fredifi...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > "eric gisse" <jowr.pi.nos...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:hemtqt$p5r$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > > funkenstein wrote: > <snip link now broken by Google.Groups> > > >> anybody have any clue what's going on here? Thanks :) > > > My money is on pair production via the > > intense electric field that is generated > > briefly at the strike point. > > What is the electric field strength of that > case? Can it be high enough for the > Schwinger mechanism? If so, then this could > be good evidence that the Schwinger mechanism > is correct. I'd be willing to bet they've produced antimatter at either the Z- machine or Proton-21. David A. Smith
From: Darwin123 on 26 Nov 2009 23:33 On Nov 26, 1:30 pm, funkenstein <luke.s...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/49288/title/Signature_of_a... > > anybody have any clue what's going on here? Thanks :) Probably electron-positron pair production due to electrons hitting ions and other electrons at high speed. The electric field in the lightening bolt would produse enough acceleration to produce at least some electron-positron pairs. It take at least 511 KeV to produce an electron. It takes at least 1022 KeV to produce an electron hole pair. A typical lightening bolt starts out with a potential difference of a few million volts. One electron, if it accelerated down the entire potential without collision, could easily gain a kinetic energy of a few million electron volts. I doubt the electron could accelerate without collision in a ground to cloud bolt. However, cluds reach pretty high. I suspect way up there, where the air pressure is very low, an electron really could accelerate to 1022 KeV. It then hits an oygen atom, which takes some of the linear momentum out of the electron. And an electron-positron pair is made. Such an electron hole pair could be detected by gamma ray emission. A positron goes into orbit around an electron, forming a positronium. The positronium decays, producing a gamma ray. The spectrum of the gamma rays would be very narrow at 511 KeV, producing an unmistakable signature. The problem with detecting such a thing is that gamma rays don't move very far in the atmosphere. But I suspect there are ways around the problem. Could proton-antiproton pairs be made? Probably. Seems unlikely, but anything is possible. You would need really high voltages in the clouds.
From: BURT on 27 Nov 2009 00:06 On Nov 26, 8:33 pm, Darwin123 <drosen0...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Nov 26, 1:30 pm, funkenstein <luke.s...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/49288/title/Signature_of_a... > > > anybody have any clue what's going on here? Thanks :) > > Probably electron-positron pair production due to electrons hitting > ions and other electrons at high speed. The electric field in the > lightening bolt would produse enough acceleration to produce at least > some electron-positron pairs. > It take at least 511 KeV to produce an electron. It takes at > least 1022 KeV to produce an electron hole pair. A typical lightening > bolt starts out with a potential difference of a few million volts. > One electron, if it accelerated down the entire potential without > collision, could easily gain a kinetic energy of a few million > electron volts. > I doubt the electron could accelerate without collision in a > ground to cloud bolt. However, cluds reach pretty high. I suspect way > up there, where the air pressure is very low, an electron really could > accelerate to 1022 KeV. It then hits an oygen atom, which takes some > of the linear momentum out of the electron. And an electron-positron > pair is made. > Such an electron hole pair could be detected by gamma ray > emission. A positron goes into orbit around an electron, forming a > positronium. The positronium decays, producing a gamma ray. The > spectrum of the gamma rays would be very narrow at 511 KeV, producing > an unmistakable signature. > The problem with detecting such a thing is that gamma rays don't > move very far in the atmosphere. But I suspect there are ways around > the problem. > Could proton-antiproton pairs be made? Probably. Seems unlikely, > but anything is possible. You would need really high voltages in the > clouds. Antiprotons do not exist. Mitch Raemsch
From: FrediFizzx on 27 Nov 2009 00:34
"dlzc" <dlzc1(a)cox.net> wrote in message news:c7f7ef46-cef5-457f-80e3-f693fa3377fc(a)m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com... > Dear "FrediFizzx": > > On Nov 26, 6:40 pm, "FrediFizzx" <fredifi...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> "eric gisse" <jowr.pi.nos...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >> >> news:hemtqt$p5r$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> >> > funkenstein wrote: >> > <snip link now broken by Google.Groups> >> >> >> anybody have any clue what's going on here? Thanks :) >> >> > My money is on pair production via the >> > intense electric field that is generated >> > briefly at the strike point. >> >> What is the electric field strength of that >> case? Can it be high enough for the >> Schwinger mechanism? If so, then this could >> be good evidence that the Schwinger mechanism >> is correct. > > I'd be willing to bet they've produced antimatter at either the Z- > machine or Proton-21. I would suspect they are producing antimatter by a different method than the Schwinger mechanism. AFAIK, no lab has ever yet produced an electric field intensity high enough for spontaneous pair production from the "vacuum". A quick search reveals that the electric field strength of lightning is probably not high enough so positron production from lightning is probably more like how the labs are producing positrons like you are suggesting. At least, I think that is what you are maybe suggesting. Best, Fred Diether moderator sci.physics.foundations |