Anti matter and matter cannot be kept together
in [Physics]
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From: bert on 5 Jul 2010 09:12 On Jul 5, 9:05 am, Yousuf Khan <bbb...(a)spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote: > On 7/5/2010 3:51 PM, Victar Shawberger wrote: > > > In spite of that, Burt has a point > > > The magnetic field comes from the surface atoms of the chamber > > Actually the magnetic field comes from several superconducting > electromagnets nearby, but not from the surface of the chamber tubes. > > The chamber tubes have their own natural internal electromagnetic field, > which is mostly neutral from a distance. But any microscopic magnetic > field they may have are overwhelmingly overpowered by the > superconducting electromagnets outside their walls. > > > How is this not an interact? > > The electromagnetic field is not made of either matter or anti-matter, > it is just a force field. The electromagnetic field is carried by > photons. Photons (i.e. particles of light) are the force carrier > particle for electromagnetism. Photons are neither matter or > anti-matter, they are just energy. Photons coming from anti-matter are > exactly the same as photons from matter. > > > If an antimatter particle touch a matter particle is the same thing, > > they must interact by their electromagnetic field > > > I do not understand Burt is not right here > > I see where the confusion is here. You are thinking that because we say > that anti-matter particles have the exact opposite electrical charge as > their matter counterparts, that must be the reason why they annihilate? > That is, a proton is positive while an anti-proton is negative. If that > was the only reason why particles annihilate, then electrons would've > annihilated protons billions of years ago, because they too have exactly > the opposite electrical charge as each other. > > The opposite charges between matter and anti-matter counterparts is just > one of many properties that are reversed between them. Actually it's > probably the most superficial property, but it's the easiest one to > remember about. The electromagnetic field might pull them close to each > other through their charge attractions. The electromagnetic force works > only over long distances, but it has no effect within the space of an > atomic nucleus. > > At a far lower level, what really annihilates these two particles is > when they are close enough to interact via the Strong and Weak nuclear > forces. The nuclear forces only act over the distances of an atomic > nucleus. It's the Strong and Weak nuclear forces that really makes the > two particles interact and annihilate each other. > > Yousuf Khan I have a theory on 5th force that does away with the use of anti- matter. Very far out thinking that takes in the cosmos and all universes immersed in it. Feynman's thinking and math. gave me the idea. TreBert
From: Tom Roberts on 5 Jul 2010 13:00 Victar Shawberger wrote: > The magnetic field comes from the surface atoms of the chamber > How is this not an interact? The issue is not whether antiprotons "interact" with matter, but rather, whether those antiprotons annihilate with the matter. Atomic traps are specifically designed so the trapped particles do not hit the walls -- the electromagnetic fields of the trap prevent that. Antiprotons do not annihilate in EM fields, they just get pushed around by them like any other charged particle. And as I said, even when antiprotons hit matter, they don't annihilate unless they stop inside the matter; as long as their kinetic energy is above a few keV the probability of their interacting via strong interactions is rather small, and is about the same as for protons interacting via strong interactions -- only strong interactions can annihilate an antiproton. Any trapped antiproton which hits a wall will stop within a micron or so and annihilate, which is why they must be kept away from the walls. The stopping is via EM interactions with the electrons -- they are light enough to be ionized from their atoms and take energy from the antiproton; nuclei are heavy and can't do that effectively. Remember that to a strongly interacting probe, matter is mostly empty space: nuclei with radii of a few femtometers separated by distances on the order of Angstroms. The electrons of the atoms don't interact strongly, only the nuclei do. Once an antiproton is stopped inside some matter (i.e. having velocity < 0.001 c or so), it will quickly happen to come close to a nucleus, be attracted to it electromagnetically, and annihilate with it. But faster antiprotons (v > 0.001 c) will simply pass through the spaces between nuclei, unscathed except for rare direct hits on the nuclei -- this is pure chance, because the EM attraction is not strong enough to divert them into hitting nuclei. Analogy: try to stop a passing car by lassoing it with a thread; it can work only if the car is already stopped. A multi-GeV antiproton is more like a freight train. > If an antimatter particle touch a matter particle is the same thing, > they must interact by their electromagnetic field Charged antimatter particles do interact electromagnetically. But this does not annihilate them; only the strong interaction can do that. Because strong interactions are short range, an antiproton must essentially "touch" a nucleus in order to annihilate, meaning that their positions must be within a femtometer or so, and their relative velocity must be less than ~0.001 c (at higher relative velocities the probability of annihilating is nonzero, but very small). Tom Roberts
From: BURT on 5 Jul 2010 14:56 On Jul 5, 5:31 am, Yousuf Khan <bbb...(a)spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote: > On 7/5/2010 8:07 AM, BURT wrote: > > >>> How does the anti matter get into the trap without interacting with > >>> the matter making up the trap? > > > - The antiprotons are created in high vacuum, > > > How are they created there? How high is the vacuum? > > A particle accelerator creates them during collision events. > > The vacuum is very complete. It's the equivalent of the vacuum of space You said they were created high in a vacuum. Particle accelerators are not. So which one is it? No. Anti matter does not exist. It is just a hole in Dirac's equation. Mitch Raemsch
From: Yousuf Khan on 5 Jul 2010 22:30 On 7/6/2010 12:56 AM, BURT wrote: > On Jul 5, 5:31 am, Yousuf Khan<bbb...(a)spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote: >> On 7/5/2010 8:07 AM, BURT wrote: >> >>>>> How does the anti matter get into the trap without interacting with >>>>> the matter making up the trap? >> >>> - The antiprotons are created in high vacuum, >> >>> How are they created there? How high is the vacuum? >> >> A particle accelerator creates them during collision events. >> >> The vacuum is very complete. It's the equivalent of the vacuum of space > > You said they were created high in a vacuum. Particle accelerators are > not. So which one is it? Are you trying to be deliberately dense here? Of course particle accelerators are in a vacuum. They require the vacuum to isolate the particles they are colliding together, from the background. Yousuf Khan
From: BURT on 5 Jul 2010 22:51
On Jul 5, 7:30 pm, Yousuf Khan <bbb...(a)spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote: > On 7/6/2010 12:56 AM, BURT wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 5:31 am, Yousuf Khan<bbb...(a)spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On 7/5/2010 8:07 AM, BURT wrote: > > >>>>> How does the anti matter get into the trap without interacting with > >>>>> the matter making up the trap? > > >>> - The antiprotons are created in high vacuum, > > >>> How are they created there? How high is the vacuum? > > >> A particle accelerator creates them during collision events. > > >> The vacuum is very complete. It's the equivalent of the vacuum of space > > > You said they were created high in a vacuum. Particle accelerators are > > not. So which one is it? > > Are you trying to be deliberately dense here? Of course particle > accelerators are in a vacuum. They require the vacuum to isolate the > particles they are colliding together, from the background. > > Yousuf Khan- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - You can't get anti matter to make it through the atmosphere. There is no negative matter. It doesn't exist. What we are seeing in accelerators are plain protons and electrons. Anti matter is nonsense. In the future this will be known to be true. Mitch Raemsch |