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From: Ron Johnson on 15 Jun 2010 12:10
On 06/15/2010 09:48 AM, Lisi wrote:
>
> Thanks for this. I was originally responding to Andrew's saying:
> <quote>
> There are many many ways to make take backups beyond having a disk big
> enough to hold the data.
> </quote>
>
> I can think of very few - and was interested in what he was thinking of.
> Incremental/differential backups are not really practical, since she will be
> at school. A periodic dd (or Clonezilla?) of the whole drive and more
> frequent updates of her personal data (of which I understand that there is
> not much) would be the optimum, but a trifle pricey, so I am still looking at
> alternative possibilities.
>

I wrote a script that only backs up our data directories (including
much of /home) into a bunch of tarballs, excluding "junk" folders
like caches, thumbnails, trash, etc, and compressing most but not
stuff like image and OOo document directories.

Each backup goes in a separate, dated directory.

For huge binary directories (like uncompressible video and audio), I
simply do a "cp -vau" from the "live" tree to the backup tree.

The bottom line, though, is that *yes*, you *do* need enough disk
space for the backup data.

--
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From: Camaleón on 15 Jun 2010 13:10
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:48:04 +0100, Lisi wrote:

> On Tuesday 15 June 2010 14:40:44 Camaleón wrote:

>> I would differentiate between "backup" data and "archived" data.

(...)

> Thanks for this. I was originally responding to Andrew's saying:
> <quote>
> There are many many ways to make take backups beyond having a disk big
> enough to hold the data.
> </quote>
>
> I can think of very few - and was interested in what he was thinking of.
> Incremental/differential backups are not really practical, since she
> will be at school.

Why not practical? Just curious O:-)

> A periodic dd (or Clonezilla?) of the whole drive
> and more frequent updates of her personal data (of which I understand
> that there is not much) would be the optimum, but a trifle pricey, so I
> am still looking at alternative possibilities.

The main drawback I see for "dd" or "clonezilla" is that they are very
"slowness". It takes much time (and space!) to make a full copy (or
image) of the disk and so not very practical because at last the user
stops doing the backup on a regular basis :-(

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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From: Hugo Vanwoerkom on 15 Jun 2010 13:30
Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 06/15/2010 05:32 AM, Lisi wrote:
>> On Tuesday 15 June 2010 01:25:56 Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>>> There are many many ways to make take backups beyond having a disk big
>>> enough to hold the data.
>>
>> Would you feel inclined to elaborate? I'm trying to solve this
>> problem for my
>> granddaughter's large HDD, and am not keen to have to buy a 300GB
>> external
>> drive. Tar would still require a fairly large medium. :-(
>>
>
> Certainly not a name-brand pre-built model!
>
> However, empty external enclosures can be had for less than $20 at all
> the regular mail order places. Just slip a "big" drive in there and
> bob's your uncle!
>

Indeed, I use 2 of them and just bought another one because the fan on
one of the units is having a hard time of it. Unfortunately you only
find out about this after you have had the unit for a while.

These are USB enclosures, one for an ATA disk and one for an SATA disk.
Curious, smartctl can read the ATA one but not the SATA one.

You just pop in the drive and plug in the unit and away you go: Debian's
recent kernels find the units. I am running 2.6.34 on a partition of the
SATA enclosure right now.

Hugo


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From: Lisi on 15 Jun 2010 14:00
On Tuesday 15 June 2010 18:06:51 Camaleón wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:48:04 +0100, Lisi wrote:
> > On Tuesday 15 June 2010 14:40:44 Camaleón wrote:
> >> I would differentiate between "backup" data and "archived" data.
>
> (...)
>
> > Thanks for this. I was originally responding to Andrew's saying:
> > <quote>
> > There are many many ways to make take backups beyond having a disk big
> > enough to hold the data.
> > </quote>
> >
> > I can think of very few - and was interested in what he was thinking of.
> > Incremental/differential backups are not really practical, since she
> > will be at school.
>
> Why not practical? Just curious O:-)

Because I shan't have hold of the computer for long enough or often enough!

> > A periodic dd (or Clonezilla?) of the whole drive
> > and more frequent updates of her personal data (of which I understand
> > that there is not much) would be the optimum, but a trifle pricey, so I
> > am still looking at alternative possibilities.
>
> The main drawback I see for "dd" or "clonezilla" is that they are very
> "slowness". It takes much time (and space!) to make a full copy (or
> image) of the disk and so not very practical because at last the user
> stops doing the backup on a regular basis :-(

The user isn't going to do the backup on a (frequent) regular basis anyway.
What I am hoping is to be able to dd (or Clonezilla or something) the drive
periodically and take a snapshot of the state of the machine at that point.
That will catch all the slow moving/changing files and facilitate a simple
restoration if needed. With luck, her personal stuff will fit on a CD or
two. Or, since we are anyway assuming that I shall be able to find the
money, I may get her a DVD RW. That she might do reasonably often.

Another possibility that I haven't yet explored is to get a NAS or something
and back all of our machines up to it.

Lisi


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From: Ron Johnson on 15 Jun 2010 14:10
On 06/15/2010 12:49 PM, Lisi wrote:
> On Tuesday 15 June 2010 18:06:51 Camale�n wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:48:04 +0100, Lisi wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 15 June 2010 14:40:44 Camale�n wrote:
>>>> I would differentiate between "backup" data and "archived" data.
>>
>> (...)
>>
>>> Thanks for this. I was originally responding to Andrew's saying:
>>> <quote>
>>> There are many many ways to make take backups beyond having a disk big
>>> enough to hold the data.
>>> </quote>
>>>
>>> I can think of very few - and was interested in what he was thinking of.
>>> Incremental/differential backups are not really practical, since she
>>> will be at school.
>>
>> Why not practical? Just curious O:-)
>
> Because I shan't have hold of the computer for long enough or often enough!
>

*Teach* her. She's in Uni, correct? Thus, she should be
responsible enough to take care of her own data by sticking in a USB
drive and running a script.

>>> A periodic dd (or Clonezilla?) of the whole drive
>>> and more frequent updates of her personal data (of which I understand
>>> that there is not much) would be the optimum, but a trifle pricey, so I
>>> am still looking at alternative possibilities.
>>
>> The main drawback I see for "dd" or "clonezilla" is that they are very
>> "slowness". It takes much time (and space!) to make a full copy (or
>> image) of the disk and so not very practical because at last the user
>> stops doing the backup on a regular basis :-(
>
> The user isn't going to do the backup on a (frequent) regular basis anyway.
> What I am hoping is to be able to dd (or Clonezilla or something) the drive
> periodically and take a snapshot of the state of the machine at that point.
> That will catch all the slow moving/changing files and facilitate a simple
> restoration if needed. With luck, her personal stuff will fit on a CD or
> two. Or, since we are anyway assuming that I shall be able to find the
> money, I may get her a DVD RW. That she might do reasonably often.
>
> Another possibility that I haven't yet explored is to get a NAS or something
> and back all of our machines up to it.
>

NFS and a multi-drive external USB/Firewire enclosure is all that's
needed.

--
Seek truth from facts.


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