Backups - was: Re: LVM
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From: Lisi on 15 Jun 2010 06:40 Please excuse the thread breaking. I have suddenly been being rejected by the list server and am sending for the third time. I hope that the list server is now happy with my SMTP settings. On Tuesday 15 June 2010 01:25:56 Andrew Sackville-West wrote: > There are many many ways to make take backups beyond having a disk big > enough to hold the data. Would you feel inclined to elaborate? I'm trying to solve this problem for my granddaughter's large HDD, and am not keen to have to buy a 300GB external drive. Tar would still require a fairly large medium. :-( Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201006151132.15778.lisi.reisz(a)gmail.com
From: Alexander Samad on 15 Jun 2010 07:30 On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 8:32 PM, Lisi <lisi.reisz(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Please excuse the thread breaking. I have suddenly been being rejected by the > list server and am sending for the third time. I hope that the list server > is now happy with my SMTP settings. > > On Tuesday 15 June 2010 01:25:56 Andrew Sackville-West wrote: >> There are many many ways to make take backups beyond having a disk big >> enough to hold the data. > > Would you feel inclined to elaborate? I'm trying to solve this problem for my > granddaughter's large HDD, and am not keen to have to buy a 300GB external > drive. Tar would still require a fairly large medium. :-( It all depends. Questions to ask How much total data is there to backup How much data changes on each change how many backups do I want to keep. How easy do I want to make my restores I use rdiff-backup remote diff backup package to a backup server, I usually keep about 30 backups, figure if I haven't noticed in a month then I probably don't really need it :) I have plenty of space on my backup server (you could use a NAS box - one of those ones that takes 2 disks so that you can raid1). I backup the system and the valuable data and for the really valuable data I send to 2 remote sites - its all automated so I don't have to worry about it (sends me emails when it has problems). took me a while to write/setup the system. I realise i will need a debian DVD to recover a machine, install base and then just restore the system backup set and go from there. One thing to remember also RAID is not a backup solution. > > Lisi > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian..org > Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201006151132.15778.lisi.reisz(a)gmail.com > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTinmIbpej51z5RaiQ-iPofiHBYm6tPar1cwJOlIr(a)mail.gmail.com
From: Camaleón on 15 Jun 2010 09:50 On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:32:15 +0100, Lisi wrote: > On Tuesday 15 June 2010 01:25:56 Andrew Sackville-West wrote: >> There are many many ways to make take backups beyond having a disk big >> enough to hold the data. > > Would you feel inclined to elaborate? I'm trying to solve this problem > for my granddaughter's large HDD, and am not keen to have to buy a 300GB > external drive. Tar would still require a fairly large medium. :-( I would differentiate between "backup" data and "archived" data. By "backup" I see a copy of the current files in the system and as per "archived" data I understand it as several snapshots of the data taken in different days and so holding different data. Backup usually takes less space than archival, but sometimes archival is necessary (a "must have" in a company). The most common procedure for a user's POV in order to get a data backup is by using a "differential" backup with some kind of compression. The first copy of the data will take all the files the user has selected to be backed up but the rest of the times the copy is only "differential" (only new or modified files are selected to be copied). This way (by using a differential backup strategy) you need less space in the medium (the first copy is big, but the rest of the differential copies are of small size and so the copy procedure is very quick). There are also those called "incremental" backups, but I find it a bit more complex to manage that "differential" ones, as per data restoration: with a differential backup yo only need the first big file and the last differential copy, but in order to restore from an incremental backup you need the first big file plus "all" the incremental ones). As per the programs to make backups... I still use "tar" (:-P) but "rsync" is said to be one of the most mentioned/preferred for this task. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.06.15.13.40.44(a)gmail.com
From: Lisi on 15 Jun 2010 11:00 On Tuesday 15 June 2010 14:40:44 Camaleón wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:32:15 +0100, Lisi wrote: > > On Tuesday 15 June 2010 01:25:56 Andrew Sackville-West wrote: > >> There are many many ways to make take backups beyond having a disk big > >> enough to hold the data. > > > > Would you feel inclined to elaborate? I'm trying to solve this problem > > for my granddaughter's large HDD, and am not keen to have to buy a 300GB > > external drive. Tar would still require a fairly large medium. :-( > > I would differentiate between "backup" data and "archived" data. > > By "backup" I see a copy of the current files in the system and as per > "archived" data I understand it as several snapshots of the data taken in > different days and so holding different data. > > Backup usually takes less space than archival, but sometimes archival is > necessary (a "must have" in a company). > > The most common procedure for a user's POV in order to get a data backup > is by using a "differential" backup with some kind of compression. The > first copy of the data will take all the files the user has selected to > be backed up but the rest of the times the copy is only > "differential" (only new or modified files are selected to be copied). > > This way (by using a differential backup strategy) you need less space in > the medium (the first copy is big, but the rest of the differential > copies are of small size and so the copy procedure is very quick). > > There are also those called "incremental" backups, but I find it a bit > more complex to manage that "differential" ones, as per data restoration: > with a differential backup yo only need the first big file and the last > differential copy, but in order to restore from an incremental backup you > need the first big file plus "all" the incremental ones). > > As per the programs to make backups... I still use "tar" (:-P) but > "rsync" is said to be one of the most mentioned/preferred for this task. Thanks for this. I was originally responding to Andrew's saying: <quote> There are many many ways to make take backups beyond having a disk big enough to hold the data. </quote> I can think of very few - and was interested in what he was thinking of. Incremental/differential backups are not really practical, since she will be at school. A periodic dd (or Clonezilla?) of the whole drive and more frequent updates of her personal data (of which I understand that there is not much) would be the optimum, but a trifle pricey, so I am still looking at alternative possibilities. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201006151548.04355.lisi.reisz(a)gmail.com
From: Ron Johnson on 15 Jun 2010 11:50 On 06/15/2010 05:32 AM, Lisi wrote: > On Tuesday 15 June 2010 01:25:56 Andrew Sackville-West wrote: >> There are many many ways to make take backups beyond having a disk big >> enough to hold the data. > > Would you feel inclined to elaborate? I'm trying to solve this problem for my > granddaughter's large HDD, and am not keen to have to buy a 300GB external > drive. Tar would still require a fairly large medium. :-( > Certainly not a name-brand pre-built model! However, empty external enclosures can be had for less than $20 at all the regular mail order places. Just slip a "big" drive in there and bob's your uncle! -- "There is usually only a limited amount of damage that can be done by dull or stupid people. For creating a truly monumental disaster, you need people with high IQs." Thomas Sowell -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4C17A0DB.9050709(a)cox.net
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