CAUTIONARY NOTE ON THE AFTERLIFE
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From: Geopelia on 28 Dec 2009 16:22 "George Hammond" <Nowhere1(a)notspam.com> wrote in message news:2sthj5lbnjpf09cfgjco83je6a7hfjjh9o(a)4ax.com... > On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 02:44:04 +1300, "Geopelia" > <phildoran(a)xtra.co.nz> wrote: > >> >>"George Hammond" <Nowhere1(a)notspam.com> wrote in message >>news:7asgj5do09o939v2jp54o9j7g5i9e3n4rg(a)4ax.com... >>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:48:38 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." >>> <paul(a)hovnanian.com> wrote: >>> >>>>George Hammond wrote: >>>>> >>>>> CAUTIONARY NOTE ON THE AFTERLIFE >>>>> >>>>> Copyright: George Hammond 2009 >>>>> >>>>> As I've said many times before my best estimate of the >>>>> probability of life after death is only about 30%. >>>> >>>>What sort of measurement or analysis do you base that 30% on? >>>> >>>>Why not 3%? Or 3ppm? >>>> >>>> >>> [Hammond] >>> Excellent question. Naturally I will immediately answer >>> any on topic serious and competent inquiry. >>> Unfortunately, I have to spend most of my time beating >>> back a horde of nonprofessional and anti-intellectual >>> hecklers, not to mention not a few atheistic and outraged >>> scientists. >>> The answer to your question is that the actual numerical >>> probability that I have assigned is based upon a balanced >>> weighing of the various lines of evidence involved. >>> Bear in mind that I have been studying the matter for >>> nearly 30 years, full time, and have in fact published a >>> major discovery in Psychology (the discovery of the >>> long-sought for Structural Model of Personality) and have >>> also discovered and published the world's first bona fide >>> scientific proof of God. >>> I only mention all that in order to establish my >>> credentials in the fields of Psychology and Theology. As >>> far as Physics goes my credentials are established by the >>> normal Curriculum Vitae which shows that I have a Masters >>> degree in Physics. >>> >>> Okay, having established my credentials in the various >>> fields which bear on the determining of this probability I >>> can sum up the situation briefly as this: >>> >>> 1. Historically, the theory of life after death is at >>> least as old as the Pyramids upon whose walls details >>> of it remain engraved in miles of carefully chiseled >>> hieroglyphics where they can be seen to this day. >>> Furthermore, a psychological and theological >>> investigation of this long history shows unequivocally >>> that the root origin of the idea is intimately connected >>> with the universal human experience of the ordinary >>> nocturnal dream. >>> In short, the only reason why the theory appears >>> plausible enough to have survivedfor 5000 years is that >>> people are strongly persuaded that the phenomenon of >>> nocturnal dreaming is significant evidence of something >>> as yet not fully explained. >>> This latter fact then tells me as an experienced >>> physicist and now accomplished psychologist and >>> theologian that the odds-on probability of their >>> actually being such a thing MUST lie somewhere in the >>> low double digits percentagewise. And I would finally >>> note, that this low double digits opinion appears to be >>> well inline with average public opinion worldwide. >>> >>> 2. From that assessment of 5000 years of recorded >>> history on the subject we then move forward into the >>> scientific argument. And here I am referring >>> specifically to the cytoskeleton-microtubule-computer >>> hypothesis. Let's call it the cytoskeleton-brain >>> hypothesis (CB). >>> 2000 years ago the New Testament writers (St. Paul) >>> using the scientific language of his day advanced a >>> rather specific description of how life after death >>> actually works in I Corinthians chapter 15 vs >>> 35-55. And in what can only be classified now as a >>> colossal coincidence, it turns out that according to >>> my investigations (and confirmed by Stuart Hameroff >>> himself), the CB could very "possibly" resurrect the >>> body to a "living-virtual-reality" inside the CB, just >>> exactly as St. Paul described it. St. Paul referred >>> to it as a "Spiritual body" in the New Testament. >>> >>> 3. Therefore, in my considered opinion, the historical >>> probability, which I assume to be no more than say >>> 15% judging from historical, public and professional >>> opinion, is now raised by virtue of this >>> cytoskeleton-computer possibility to something more >>> like a 30% probability. Simply because the >>> historical belief which obtained at least a 15% >>> credibility with world opinion, now has a plausible and >>> indeed even remarkable scientific explanation. In >>> short, The probability has just been DOUBLED by virtue >>> of the discovery of a plausible scientific explanation. >>> As you can see, it's really a scientific guessing >>> game at this point, a sort of "you bet your life" kind >>> of guessing game. And my guess is that the probability >>> of a real life after death is somewhere around 30%. >>> Now 30% is a long long ways from 51% and even 51% >>> is a long ways from a sure thing. On the other hand >>> given the import of the matter, a quite credible >>> probability of 30% is something that simply cannot be >>> ignored! >>> >>> Hope that goes some ways towards answering your question. >> >>(Geopelia) >>Isn't it just wishful thinking? >> >> > [Hammond] > No, and that is precisely the point about the theory of > life after death and why it won't go away. > There is an undeniable 5000-year-old observational > history of a well-defined scientific possibility that it > could be real. > It is easy to dismiss wishful thinking, it is impossible > to dismiss observational facts, and that is why the theory > won't go away. > These observational facts are as follows: > > 1. There is an invisible world ( a.k.a. part of reality is > invisible. This can now be actually scientifically > measured to three significant figures. > > 2. This invisible reality is caused by a deficit in human > growth, specifically in the brain. And this deficit > is intimately connected with a well known > hallucinatory reality known as the nocturnal dream. > > 3. It is now known that there is an enormous > "cytoskeleton-brain" which is optically interconnected > and could easily read out a lifetime of "real-life > virtual reality" in a split second at the moment of > death. And that this would precisely fit the > Christian theory of the resurrection of the body at > death as outlined in the New Testament in I Corinthians > chapter 15, vs 35-55. > > 4. Any competent scientist can see that the last futile hope > of an ignoramus to try and classify this as "wishful > thinking" must be ruled out of court. > > . > . >>When humans realised that we all die in the end, wouldn't the idea have >>arisen that there must be something afterwards? How can all the learning >>and >>experience of a lifetime just be snuffed out? How can those who love never >>meet again? >> >> >> > [Hammond] > Without the existence of a plausible scientific > explanation such arguments are nothing but idle > "philawswphy" conjectures. >> >> >>Just about every culture has some theory about life after death. In the >>old >>days, people prayed and sacrificed to the gods. Today we try to find some >>scientific proof. >> >> > [Hammond] > as I said, that is a historical fact, and I have pointed > out the observational rationale for why that historical fact > exists. >> >> >>We can only die in hopes of something surviving. My guess is the >>probability >>is nil. >> >> > [Hammond} > Quite frankly Mdm., your "guesswork" is of very little > relevance to the issue. (Geopelia) Very likely. What would I know? But eschatological speculations can be interesting.
From: BruceS on 28 Dec 2009 17:37 On Dec 28, 11:49 am, George Hammond <Nowhe...(a)notspam.com> wrote: > On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 06:58:14 -0800 (PST), BruceS > > > > <bruce...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >On Dec 28, 6:44 am, "Geopelia" <phildo...(a)xtra.co.nz> wrote: > >> "George Hammond" <Nowhe...(a)notspam.com> wrote in message > > >>news:7asgj5do09o939v2jp54o9j7g5i9e3n4rg(a)4ax.com... > > >> > On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:48:38 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." > >> > <p...(a)hovnanian.com> wrote: > > >> >>George Hammond wrote: > > >> >>> CAUTIONARY NOTE ON THE AFTERLIFE > > >> >>> Copyright: George Hammond 2009 > > >> >>> As I've said many times before my best estimate of the > >> >>> probability of life after death is only about 30%. > > >> >>What sort of measurement or analysis do you base that 30% on? > > >> >>Why not 3%? Or 3ppm? > > >> > [Hammond] > >> > Excellent question. Naturally I will immediately answer > >> > any on topic serious and competent inquiry. > >> > Unfortunately, I have to spend most of my time beating > >> > back a horde of nonprofessional and anti-intellectual > >> > hecklers, not to mention not a few atheistic and outraged > >> > scientists. > >> > The answer to your question is that the actual numerical > >> > probability that I have assigned is based upon a balanced > >> > weighing of the various lines of evidence involved. > >> > Bear in mind that I have been studying the matter for > >> > nearly 30 years, full time, and have in fact published a > >> > major discovery in Psychology (the discovery of the > >> > long-sought for Structural Model of Personality) and have > >> > also discovered and published the world's first bona fide > >> > scientific proof of God. > >> > I only mention all that in order to establish my > >> > credentials in the fields of Psychology and Theology. As > >> > far as Physics goes my credentials are established by the > >> > normal Curriculum Vitae which shows that I have a Masters > >> > degree in Physics. > > >> > Okay, having established my credentials in the various > >> > fields which bear on the determining of this probability I > >> > can sum up the situation briefly as this: > > >> > 1. Historically, the theory of life after death is at > >> > least as old as the Pyramids upon whose walls details > >> > of it remain engraved in miles of carefully chiseled > >> > hieroglyphics where they can be seen to this day. > >> > Furthermore, a psychological and theological > >> > investigation of this long history shows unequivocally > >> > that the root origin of the idea is intimately connected > >> > with the universal human experience of the ordinary > >> > nocturnal dream. > >> > In short, the only reason why the theory appears > >> > plausible enough to have survivedfor 5000 years is that > >> > people are strongly persuaded that the phenomenon of > >> > nocturnal dreaming is significant evidence of something > >> > as yet not fully explained. > >> > This latter fact then tells me as an experienced > >> > physicist and now accomplished psychologist and > >> > theologian that the odds-on probability of their > >> > actually being such a thing MUST lie somewhere in the > >> > low double digits percentagewise. And I would finally > >> > note, that this low double digits opinion appears to be > >> > well inline with average public opinion worldwide. > > >> > 2. From that assessment of 5000 years of recorded > >> > history on the subject we then move forward into the > >> > scientific argument. And here I am referring > >> > specifically to the cytoskeleton-microtubule-computer > >> > hypothesis. Let's call it the cytoskeleton-brain > >> > hypothesis (CB). > >> > 2000 years ago the New Testament writers (St. Paul) > >> > using the scientific language of his day advanced a > >> > rather specific description of how life after death > >> > actually works in I Corinthians chapter 15 vs > >> > 35-55. And in what can only be classified now as a > >> > colossal coincidence, it turns out that according to > >> > my investigations (and confirmed by Stuart Hameroff > >> > himself), the CB could very "possibly" resurrect the > >> > body to a "living-virtual-reality" inside the CB, just > >> > exactly as St. Paul described it. St. Paul referred > >> > to it as a "Spiritual body" in the New Testament. > > >> > 3. Therefore, in my considered opinion, the historical > >> > probability, which I assume to be no more than say > >> > 15% judging from historical, public and professional > >> > opinion, is now raised by virtue of this > >> > cytoskeleton-computer possibility to something more > >> > like a 30% probability. Simply because the > >> > historical belief which obtained at least a 15% > >> > credibility with world opinion, now has a plausible and > >> > indeed even remarkable scientific explanation. In > >> > short, The probability has just been DOUBLED by virtue > >> > of the discovery of a plausible scientific explanation. > >> > As you can see, it's really a scientific guessing > >> > game at this point, a sort of "you bet your life" kind > >> > of guessing game. And my guess is that the probability > >> > of a real life after death is somewhere around 30%. > >> > Now 30% is a long long ways from 51% and even 51% > >> > is a long ways from a sure thing. On the other hand > >> > given the import of the matter, a quite credible > >> > probability of 30% is something that simply cannot be > >> > ignored! > > >> > Hope that goes some ways towards answering your question. > > >> (Geopelia) > >> Isn't it just wishful thinking? > > >> When humans realised that we all die in the end, wouldn't the idea have > >> arisen that there must be something afterwards? How can all the learning and > >> experience of a lifetime just be snuffed out? How can those who love never > >> meet again? > > >> Just about every culture has some theory about life after death. In the old > >> days, people prayed and sacrificed to the gods. Today we try to find some > >> scientific proof. > > >> We can only die in hopes of something surviving. My guess is the probability > >> is nil. > > >(BruceS) > >Right; dying is the only way to get the answer. > > [Hammond] > Who told you that? What makes you think so? modern > science proves the existence of things that they can't see > almost every day. There is no reason to think that life > after death is any different. As Dara Obrian would say to you, "Get in the f* sack!" > > I say, live as if > >you'll be held accountable for your actions after you die, but don't > >count on it, and don't rush the process. > > [Hammond] > Yeah yeah yeah, that's known to history as "Pascal's > Wager" and were all familiar with it. No, it isn't, and you wouldn't say that if you were. > > I fully expect death to be > >the end of me, but am willing to be surprised. Anyway, who needs life > >after death when statistics show us that we have a good chance of > >immortality? > > [Hammond] > We have no chance of immortality in this life. All of > history proves that. The only known possibility of > immortality is described in the New Testament, and has now > become a scientific possibility. Which is what we are > talking about. Your sense of humor appears to be as deficient as your understanding of science. Shame, that; it would be good if you had *something* going for you. <snip ridiculous sig>
From: " SNIP HECKLER>" on 28 Dec 2009 23:58 X-No-Archive: Yes On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 14:37:03 -0800
From: George Hammond on 29 Dec 2009 05:11 On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 10:22:29 +1300, "Geopelia" <phildoran(a)xtra.co.nz> wrote: > >"George Hammond" <Nowhere1(a)notspam.com> wrote in message >news:2sthj5lbnjpf09cfgjco83je6a7hfjjh9o(a)4ax.com... >> On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 02:44:04 +1300, "Geopelia" >> <phildoran(a)xtra.co.nz> wrote: >> >>> >>>"George Hammond" <Nowhere1(a)notspam.com> wrote in message >>>news:7asgj5do09o939v2jp54o9j7g5i9e3n4rg(a)4ax.com... >>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:48:38 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." >>>> <paul(a)hovnanian.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>George Hammond wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> CAUTIONARY NOTE ON THE AFTERLIFE >>>>>> >>>>>> Copyright: George Hammond 2009 >>>>>> >>>>>> As I've said many times before my best estimate of the >>>>>> probability of life after death is only about 30%. >>>>> >>>>>What sort of measurement or analysis do you base that 30% on? >>>>> >>>>>Why not 3%? Or 3ppm? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> [Hammond] >>>> Excellent question. Naturally I will immediately answer >>>> any on topic serious and competent inquiry. >>>> Unfortunately, I have to spend most of my time beating >>>> back a horde of nonprofessional and anti-intellectual >>>> hecklers, not to mention not a few atheistic and outraged >>>> scientists. >>>> The answer to your question is that the actual numerical >>>> probability that I have assigned is based upon a balanced >>>> weighing of the various lines of evidence involved. >>>> Bear in mind that I have been studying the matter for >>>> nearly 30 years, full time, and have in fact published a >>>> major discovery in Psychology (the discovery of the >>>> long-sought for Structural Model of Personality) and have >>>> also discovered and published the world's first bona fide >>>> scientific proof of God. >>>> I only mention all that in order to establish my >>>> credentials in the fields of Psychology and Theology. As >>>> far as Physics goes my credentials are established by the >>>> normal Curriculum Vitae which shows that I have a Masters >>>> degree in Physics. >>>> >>>> Okay, having established my credentials in the various >>>> fields which bear on the determining of this probability I >>>> can sum up the situation briefly as this: >>>> >>>> 1. Historically, the theory of life after death is at >>>> least as old as the Pyramids upon whose walls details >>>> of it remain engraved in miles of carefully chiseled >>>> hieroglyphics where they can be seen to this day. >>>> Furthermore, a psychological and theological >>>> investigation of this long history shows unequivocally >>>> that the root origin of the idea is intimately connected >>>> with the universal human experience of the ordinary >>>> nocturnal dream. >>>> In short, the only reason why the theory appears >>>> plausible enough to have survivedfor 5000 years is that >>>> people are strongly persuaded that the phenomenon of >>>> nocturnal dreaming is significant evidence of something >>>> as yet not fully explained. >>>> This latter fact then tells me as an experienced >>>> physicist and now accomplished psychologist and >>>> theologian that the odds-on probability of their >>>> actually being such a thing MUST lie somewhere in the >>>> low double digits percentagewise. And I would finally >>>> note, that this low double digits opinion appears to be >>>> well inline with average public opinion worldwide. >>>> >>>> 2. From that assessment of 5000 years of recorded >>>> history on the subject we then move forward into the >>>> scientific argument. And here I am referring >>>> specifically to the cytoskeleton-microtubule-computer >>>> hypothesis. Let's call it the cytoskeleton-brain >>>> hypothesis (CB). >>>> 2000 years ago the New Testament writers (St. Paul) >>>> using the scientific language of his day advanced a >>>> rather specific description of how life after death >>>> actually works in I Corinthians chapter 15 vs >>>> 35-55. And in what can only be classified now as a >>>> colossal coincidence, it turns out that according to >>>> my investigations (and confirmed by Stuart Hameroff >>>> himself), the CB could very "possibly" resurrect the >>>> body to a "living-virtual-reality" inside the CB, just >>>> exactly as St. Paul described it. St. Paul referred >>>> to it as a "Spiritual body" in the New Testament. >>>> >>>> 3. Therefore, in my considered opinion, the historical >>>> probability, which I assume to be no more than say >>>> 15% judging from historical, public and professional >>>> opinion, is now raised by virtue of this >>>> cytoskeleton-computer possibility to something more >>>> like a 30% probability. Simply because the >>>> historical belief which obtained at least a 15% >>>> credibility with world opinion, now has a plausible and >>>> indeed even remarkable scientific explanation. In >>>> short, The probability has just been DOUBLED by virtue >>>> of the discovery of a plausible scientific explanation. >>>> As you can see, it's really a scientific guessing >>>> game at this point, a sort of "you bet your life" kind >>>> of guessing game. And my guess is that the probability >>>> of a real life after death is somewhere around 30%. >>>> Now 30% is a long long ways from 51% and even 51% >>>> is a long ways from a sure thing. On the other hand >>>> given the import of the matter, a quite credible >>>> probability of 30% is something that simply cannot be >>>> ignored! >>>> >>>> Hope that goes some ways towards answering your question. >>> >>>(Geopelia) >>>Isn't it just wishful thinking? >>> >>> >> [Hammond] >> No, and that is precisely the point about the theory of >> life after death and why it won't go away. >> There is an undeniable 5000-year-old observational >> history of a well-defined scientific possibility that it >> could be real. >> It is easy to dismiss wishful thinking, it is impossible >> to dismiss observational facts, and that is why the theory >> won't go away. >> These observational facts are as follows: >> >> 1. There is an invisible world ( a.k.a. part of reality is >> invisible. This can now be actually scientifically >> measured to three significant figures. >> >> 2. This invisible reality is caused by a deficit in human >> growth, specifically in the brain. And this deficit >> is intimately connected with a well known >> hallucinatory reality known as the nocturnal dream. >> >> 3. It is now known that there is an enormous >> "cytoskeleton-brain" which is optically interconnected >> and could easily read out a lifetime of "real-life >> virtual reality" in a split second at the moment of >> death. And that this would precisely fit the >> Christian theory of the resurrection of the body at >> death as outlined in the New Testament in I Corinthians >> chapter 15, vs 35-55. >> >> 4. Any competent scientist can see that the last futile hope >> of an ignoramus to try and classify this as "wishful >> thinking" must be ruled out of court. >> >> . >> . >>>When humans realised that we all die in the end, wouldn't the idea have >>>arisen that there must be something afterwards? How can all the learning >>>and >>>experience of a lifetime just be snuffed out? How can those who love never >>>meet again? >>> >>> >>> >> [Hammond] >> Without the existence of a plausible scientific >> explanation such arguments are nothing but idle >> "philawswphy" conjectures. >>> >>> >>>Just about every culture has some theory about life after death. In the >>>old >>>days, people prayed and sacrificed to the gods. Today we try to find some >>>scientific proof. >>> >>> >> [Hammond] >> as I said, that is a historical fact, and I have pointed >> out the observational rationale for why that historical fact >> exists. >>> >>> >>>We can only die in hopes of something surviving. My guess is the >>>probability >>>is nil. >>> >>> >> [Hammond} >> Quite frankly Mdm., your "guesswork" is of very little >> relevance to the issue. > >(Geopelia) >Very likely. What would I know? But eschatological speculations can be >interesting. > [Hammond] Well, for the "man who has everything", who has mastered Physics, Psychology, Theology, and History, there really isn't much else worthy of serious attention left EXCEPT eschatology. Please try to bear in mind that you are talking to the first person in history to discover, prove, and publish in the peer-reviewed literature a bona fide scientific proof of God. Just imagine for a moment what you would have to know to do such a thing! Or who you would have to be to actually accomplish such a thing! Why literally no one on the face of the earth would have anything but a fatuous notion of who you are! In fact, in a famous 1980s and cyclical the Vatican said: "We are not opposed to the search for a scientific proof of God, although we have no idea what such a thing would consist of or who would discover it." (Vatican encylical ca. 1980) That ought to give you some idea of who you're actually talking to. ======================================== GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE Primary site http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond Mirror site http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3 =======================================
From: marc on 29 Dec 2009 06:00
"Geopelia" <phildoran(a)xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:hhb7it$4a6$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> >>>We can only die in hopes of something surviving. My guess is the >>>probability is nil. The probability of your guess being wrong is virtually nil. Belief in life-after-death is nothing but a rather sad manifestation of how willingly and readily some people are prepared to abandon or corrupt intellectual integrity if so doing feigns a means of providing ego-preservation in finessing physical death. Such belief is rationalized by treating various ancient mythologies as empirical fact, the straightforward (but more honest) bypassing of any attempt at rational justification blindly euphemized as 'faith', or in Hammond's case, a pseudo-scientific concoction of garbled semantic nonsensical mush, although on the positive side it should be said that Hammond's stuff does score highly for amusement value and is no doubt of interest to those looking for case studies of minds that have succumb to obvious delusional belief. Marc |