Corporate creep in Linux? (mini-rantette)
in [Slackware]
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From: Mike Jones on 11 Sep 2009 04:57 Responding to dae3: > Mike Jones <Not(a)Arizona.Bay> wrote: > >> Whats wrong with RXVT? >> >> If you want extended function, MRXVT? > > > For that matter, I wonder what's wrong with xterm... A good point, seeing as RXVT's key strength is that is it lighter than xterm, and these days thats not even going to cause a ripple on today's hardware. MRXVT does do multiple tabs though, and all the fancy stuff if you want it. -- *===( http://www.400monkeys.com/God/ *===( http://principiadiscordia.com/ *===( http://www.slackware.com/
From: Mike Jones on 11 Sep 2009 05:13 Responding to Glyn Millington: > Kees Theunissen <theuniss(a)rijnh.nl> writes: > >> On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:36:15 +0000, notbob wrote: >>> >>> Slack is not totally immune. I just used xwmconfig to change from >>> default kde to fluxbox. What do I get when I invoke startx? twm! >>> What the...?? Yes, the symlink is xinitrc -> xinitrc.fluxbox, but it >>> goes to twm. In fact, now matter what wm I choose with xwmconfig, I >>> get twm. I'm reduced to using startx /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.foowm to >>> get the wm I want. So much for autoconfig. >> >> Regardless of all supposed-auto-bloat-ware it's still allowed to RTFM. >> Did you read the xwmconfig(1) manpage? And while doing so, did you >> notice: >> "When run by a non-root user, xwmconfig writes out a >> $HOME/.xinitrc file, allowing the user to choose their own default >> window manager (possibly overriding the one chosen as a system >> default)"? >> >> SNIP .... This didn't change for a long time and I don't expect this >> changed with the 13.0 release. > > It didn't. > > I think the answer to all tis stuff is, as you say, to RTFM - as it > always has been with Slackware I think. But one of the problems is that > many of the docs are getting a little dated and to find up-to-date > information can be more tricky at times, especially for the newer users > who may not be sure of the right terms to enter into Goolge and who want > something a little less forbidding than the man pages! So I'm *really* > looking forward to the next edition of the Slackware book :-) > > atb > > > Glyn Just a thought on this one... What seems to have happened is that instead of the documentation improving (which is a facet of the Linux experience still screaming for improvement), solid and dependable tools have been replaced by (often over-complex and inevitably flakey) automatic "do it for me" stuff that also has incantational documentation that only those who knew how it worked would understand anyway. This translates into a regular "click'n'hope" experience that is becoming more like Win-D'ohz as things "progress". I'd have prefered things more like they were around Slack 9, but with better documentation written by people who know how to present that level of information to people who don't have all the clues (like, with config examples?), rather than the typical obscure tech-docs written by tech- heads, and approved by other tech-heads. Most things can be configured by hand (often easier than figuring out a semi-auto mega-app) by most people *IF* they can access the clues they need (See IceWM documentation as an example of how to do this). Linux documentation is famous for missing this function. If you can understand the man page, you don't need the man page. Catch-22. Therefore, when someone writes a "do it for me" app, it gets used, then it becomes standardised, then the original swiss-army-knife app gets dropped. When enough automated "do it for me" apps have appeared, you get Ubuntu. Then Slackware starts losing its traditional tool-sets. The prosecution rests at this time. -- *===( http://www.400monkeys.com/God/ *===( http://principiadiscordia.com/ *===( http://www.slackware.com/
From: dae3 on 11 Sep 2009 05:35 Peter Chant <REMpeteOVE(a)petezilla.co.uk> wrote: > dae3 wrote: > >> Mike Jones <Not(a)Arizona.Bay> wrote: >> >>> Whats wrong with RXVT? >>> If you want extended function, MRXVT? >> >> For that matter, I wonder what's wrong with xterm... > > ...or connecting a teletype to your serial port... Your comparison is really spot-on, except that a teletype: 1. wastes paper; 2. wastes power; 3. takes a lot of room; 3b. cannot be resized; 4. is pricey; 5. is slow; 6. is noisy; 7. is high-maintenance; 7b. needs inked ribbon; 8. allows no realtime editing; 9. cannot use the X clipboard; 10. is ASCII only; 11. has no curses support. Apart from the above, comparing xterm to a teletype makes perfect sense. -- ~> cat /etc/*-{version,release}|head -n1 && uname -moprs|fold -sw72 Slackware 12.2.0 Linux 2.6.27.7-crrm i686 AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology MK-36 GNU/Linux
From: Glyn Millington on 11 Sep 2009 05:23 Mike Jones <Not(a)Arizona.Bay> writes: > Responding to Glyn Millington: >> I think the answer to all tis stuff is, as you say, to RTFM - as it >> always has been with Slackware I think. But one of the problems is that >> many of the docs are getting a little dated and to find up-to-date >> information can be more tricky at times, especially for the newer users >> who may not be sure of the right terms to enter into Goolge and who want >> something a little less forbidding than the man pages! So I'm *really* >> looking forward to the next edition of the Slackware book :-) > > Just a thought on this one... ..... good stuff snipped ... > > I'd have prefered things more like they were around Slack 9, but with > better documentation written by people who know how to present that level > of information to people who don't have all the clues (like, with config > examples?), rather than the typical obscure tech-docs written by tech- > heads, and approved by other tech-heads. > > Most things can be configured by hand (often easier than figuring out a > semi-auto mega-app) by most people *IF* they can access the clues they > need (See IceWM documentation as an example of how to do this). Linux > documentation is famous for missing this function. If you can understand > the man page, you don't need the man page. Catch-22. Therefore, when > someone writes a "do it for me" app, it gets used, then it becomes > standardised, then the original swiss-army-knife app gets dropped. > > When enough automated "do it for me" apps have appeared, you get Ubuntu. > > Then Slackware starts losing its traditional tool-sets. Well has that happened yet? The major tool is a text editor - we have lots on the dvd. There seem to be lots of .*rc files around and /etc/rc.d seems to be the sunny playground it always was :-) All that has happened is that the KDE version has taken a major bump up. > The prosecution rests at this time. And you have a *good* case - I just don't think it helps if it is overstated :-) The sky isn't about to fall down. atb Glyn -- RTFM http://www.tldp.org/index.html GAFC http://slackbook.org/ The Official Source :-) STFW http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=alt.os.linux.slackware JFGI http://jfgi.us/
From: Jim Diamond on 11 Sep 2009 10:35
On 2009-09-11 at 05:57 ADT, Mike Jones <Not(a)Arizona.Bay> wrote: > Responding to dae3: > >> Mike Jones <Not(a)Arizona.Bay> wrote: >> >>> Whats wrong with RXVT? >>> >>> If you want extended function, MRXVT? >> >> >> For that matter, I wonder what's wrong with xterm... > > > A good point, seeing as RXVT's key strength is that is it lighter than > xterm, and these days thats not even going to cause a ripple on today's > hardware. > > MRXVT does do multiple tabs though, and all the fancy stuff if you want > it. I think it is still lacking utf8 support, which is a bit of a nuisance in some circumstances. Also, it doesn't use X resources, which IMHO is a Bad Thing. Other than that, it's not a bad terminal emulator. Jim |