Dumbed down consumer electronics: Adding DTV channels
in [Design]
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From: Joel Koltner on 4 Aug 2010 19:24 "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:8bu8k8Fj6pU1(a)mid.individual.net... > Joel Koltner wrote: > Nah, just a nuisance (and money for the ticket). We've made many trips > that way, it was a very reliable little car, almost built like a tank. That's always a slightly dicey area... if the manufacturer says it's reated for such-and-such amount of cargo, just how much can you push it before you really are jeopardizing the handling and safety of the vehicle? [Power outages, Internet backup] > If they last that long there are usually bigger underlying issues, and > then you have other worries. Like making sure older neighbors don't > freeze to death in winter because their "modern" gas furnace won't work > without power. Sure, but who really needs to be able to go without Internet access for, e.g., 24 hours or less? Businesses -- including consultants who work from their homes :-) -- sure, but regular Ma and Pa Kettles? ---Joel
From: Joerg on 4 Aug 2010 20:25 Joel Koltner wrote: > "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message > news:8bu8k8Fj6pU1(a)mid.individual.net... >> Joel Koltner wrote: >> Nah, just a nuisance (and money for the ticket). We've made many trips >> that way, it was a very reliable little car, almost built like a tank. > > That's always a slightly dicey area... if the manufacturer says it's > reated for such-and-such amount of cargo, just how much can you push it > before you really are jeopardizing the handling and safety of the vehicle? > Should have seen me haul firewood with the Mitsubishi :-) Shhhht, I didn't say nuthin' ... Of course, you can't negotiate a 35mph curve at 50mph when heavily loaded. And the vehicle should be built in a sturdy fashion, mine has thick torsion bars up front and leaf springs in back. > [Power outages, Internet backup] > >> If they last that long there are usually bigger underlying issues, and >> then you have other worries. Like making sure older neighbors don't >> freeze to death in winter because their "modern" gas furnace won't work >> without power. > > Sure, but who really needs to be able to go without Internet access for, > e.g., 24 hours or less? Businesses -- including consultants who work > from their homes :-) -- sure, but regular Ma and Pa Kettles? > Sometimes it baffles me. I know realtors, self-employed engineers, small home-based sales guys, restaurant owners ... no backup plans whatsoever. Always flying seat of the pants. Then one sunny day ... beep ... click. "George, I can even get my car out of the garage!" .. "Yes, you can" .. "No, I can't" .. "Ok, I'll come by and get it out" -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Joerg on 4 Aug 2010 20:30 krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: > On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 10:22:12 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > [...] > <snip> > >> I found that 56k connections only work very locally. When I did data >> transfers across the pond a couple decades ago the most I could reliably >> work at was 4800bd, sometimes 1200bd was required. > > That makes no sense. The connection rate only depends on your "last mile". This was in the days of point to point data transfer. Modules specs, manuscripts, et cetera. Some of those connections went over "singing wires" where the last mile could actually be more like 30 miles. You've seen them, where the wires basically keep the poles from falling over. Add in a crackling transatlantic connection with no SNR to write home about. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: krw on 4 Aug 2010 21:17 On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 17:30:00 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >> On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 10:22:12 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> > >[...] > >> <snip> >> >>> I found that 56k connections only work very locally. When I did data >>> transfers across the pond a couple decades ago the most I could reliably >>> work at was 4800bd, sometimes 1200bd was required. >> >> That makes no sense. The connection rate only depends on your "last mile". > > >This was in the days of point to point data transfer. Modules specs, >manuscripts, et cetera. Some of those connections went over "singing >wires" where the last mile could actually be more like 30 miles. You've >seen them, where the wires basically keep the poles from falling over. >Add in a crackling transatlantic connection with no SNR to write home about. How did you get a cross-pond analog line at a time when there were 56K modems?
From: Joerg on 4 Aug 2010 21:36
krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: > On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 17:30:00 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>> On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 10:22:12 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >> [...] >> >>> <snip> >>> >>>> I found that 56k connections only work very locally. When I did data >>>> transfers across the pond a couple decades ago the most I could reliably >>>> work at was 4800bd, sometimes 1200bd was required. >>> That makes no sense. The connection rate only depends on your "last mile". >> >> This was in the days of point to point data transfer. Modules specs, >> manuscripts, et cetera. Some of those connections went over "singing >> wires" where the last mile could actually be more like 30 miles. You've >> seen them, where the wires basically keep the poles from falling over. >> Add in a crackling transatlantic connection with no SNR to write home about. > > How did you get a cross-pond analog line at a time when there were 56K modems? > It wasn't a 56k modem. It was a 9600bd modem and later a 14.4k. But even at that the connection would immediately error out unless I forced it to start at 4800bd. It wouldn't have been any different with a 56k modem unless it couldn't ratchet down to 2400 and 1200 (then you wouldn't be able to connect). You can't beat Shannons theorem, when the channel is weak there is nothing you can do except throttling down. It depended a bit on the country. Germany-US would often hold 4800 through the whole session, but no more. For Germany-Canada it was sometimes better to start even lower so it wouldn't cut out on me. Same to Korea and places like that. But every reduction by a factor of two meant a doubling of the costs of the call. Also, it was really important to have a speaker run at least for the first 1/4 of the transmission. That is because phone costs per minute were high back then and sometimes it was smarter to cut it all loose after 5min and start over. Some connections would gradually deteriorate for some reason and then you had to try until you got one that didn't. After so many transmissions you could almost predict whether a connection would stick or not. We also split stuff up so partial reads would be useful and someone could piece it back together at the other end. Sometimes when I hear kids bemoan that the 5Mb/sec broadband at their parents' house is sluggish I wish they could experience that old modem stuff just once. If you had a >100k file and it wasn't super urgent it was cheaper to spool it onto a floppy and airmail it. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM. |