ECL logic SPICE models
in [Design]
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From: krw on 15 Sep 2009 19:04 On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 07:43:22 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >krw wrote: >> On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:17:10 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:01:07 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Charlie E. wrote: >>>> [snip] >>>>>> Yes, Jim, I think I sent that to you back in the day. But, you have >>>>>> to be careful. It really does what is in effect an inverse FFT of the >>>>>> Sparams, so it doesn't include any of the really important data you >>>>>> need to do a good spice simulation when you are concerned more with >>>>>> transient response. >>>>> That's exactly the point, especially with LDMOS. When a big old fat one >>>>> goes phut ... *KABLAM* it's mucho Dolares down the drain. Not the best >>>>> way to make friends at a new client. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ... IBIS models are a 'little' better, but they are >>>>>> also very behavioral and I was always interested in the little >>>>>> 'gotchas' that following them too closely led to. >>>>>> >>>>>> Charlie >>>> Joerg, You have way too much "phut ... *KABLAM*" in your life! What >>>> is it you're doing to cause all that ?:-) >>>> >>>> Crikey! Here I am months from the big '70, and I can count all my >>>> "phut ... *KABLAM*"'s on one hand... and they were ALL in the lab, NOT >>>> in the field, just great entertainment for my technicians... nothing >>>> quite like the boss getting knocked off his lab stool to amuse the >>>> troops ;-) >>> >>> Mine are also in the lab. It usually happens when we try to push the >>> envelope a bit too much, when models don't jibe or when something else >>> breaks down and causes a huge reflection or things like that. I do a lot >>> of heavy duty pulse stuff where this is a normal part of life. >>> >>> You are doing IC design. That's like signal corp versus a job in the >>> artillery. I did some chip designs as well but only a few and, you >>> guessed it, those are run hard along the kablam ridge. "But this will >>> electromigrate itself to death" ... "We have no real estate, got to do >>> it" ... "Yabbut, the design rules and all that" ..."It only needs to >>> live a few hours" ... "Oh". >> >> Oops. It didn't. > > >They all do :-) Evidently not the ones that go "phut ... *KABLAM*", unless you're really a closet pyro. ;-)
From: Joerg on 15 Sep 2009 20:29 krw wrote: > On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 07:43:22 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> krw wrote: >>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:17:10 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:01:07 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Charlie E. wrote: >>>>> [snip] >>>>>>> Yes, Jim, I think I sent that to you back in the day. But, you have >>>>>>> to be careful. It really does what is in effect an inverse FFT of the >>>>>>> Sparams, so it doesn't include any of the really important data you >>>>>>> need to do a good spice simulation when you are concerned more with >>>>>>> transient response. >>>>>> That's exactly the point, especially with LDMOS. When a big old fat one >>>>>> goes phut ... *KABLAM* it's mucho Dolares down the drain. Not the best >>>>>> way to make friends at a new client. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> ... IBIS models are a 'little' better, but they are >>>>>>> also very behavioral and I was always interested in the little >>>>>>> 'gotchas' that following them too closely led to. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Charlie >>>>> Joerg, You have way too much "phut ... *KABLAM*" in your life! What >>>>> is it you're doing to cause all that ?:-) >>>>> >>>>> Crikey! Here I am months from the big '70, and I can count all my >>>>> "phut ... *KABLAM*"'s on one hand... and they were ALL in the lab, NOT >>>>> in the field, just great entertainment for my technicians... nothing >>>>> quite like the boss getting knocked off his lab stool to amuse the >>>>> troops ;-) >>>> Mine are also in the lab. It usually happens when we try to push the >>>> envelope a bit too much, when models don't jibe or when something else >>>> breaks down and causes a huge reflection or things like that. I do a lot >>>> of heavy duty pulse stuff where this is a normal part of life. >>>> >>>> You are doing IC design. That's like signal corp versus a job in the >>>> artillery. I did some chip designs as well but only a few and, you >>>> guessed it, those are run hard along the kablam ridge. "But this will >>>> electromigrate itself to death" ... "We have no real estate, got to do >>>> it" ... "Yabbut, the design rules and all that" ..."It only needs to >>>> live a few hours" ... "Oh". >>> Oops. It didn't. >> >> They all do :-) > > Evidently not the ones that go "phut ... *KABLAM*", unless you're > really a closet pyro. ;-) That's what my father thought when my first attempt at building a kilowatt-size amplifier as a teenager showed some "sub-optimal" behavior. I was blissfully unaware that even large electrolytic capacitors have things like ESR and ripple current limits. Phssssoooosh ..... cap took off like a Saturn V, left a crater in the ceiling plaster and a smolder hole in the carpet. What I meant with *KABLAM* are experiments in the lab. The more you can model beforehand the less likely it is that you blow through a case of $250 RF transistors. This is why I prefer devices that come with SPICE models. Because most of my RF designs are not run-of-the-mills benign amplifiers at all. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: JosephKK on 18 Sep 2009 15:22 On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:03:31 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >Jim Thompson wrote: > >[...] > >> Young man, queuing up to be cancer-victim-Duane's replacement, is, of >> all things, the maintenance shop manager for the Chandler Police >> Department... >> >> http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/AllisonAtMarksShop.JPG >> > >They ride Honda, not Harley? I've never seen police ride Japanese bikes >anywhere. But Folsom PD and the CHP use BMW. > Heck, i used to ride an ex-police Kawasaki myself. Common in the Far west US.
From: Joerg on 18 Sep 2009 17:32 JosephKK wrote: > On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:03:31 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> Jim Thompson wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>> Young man, queuing up to be cancer-victim-Duane's replacement, is, of >>> all things, the maintenance shop manager for the Chandler Police >>> Department... >>> >>> http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/AllisonAtMarksShop.JPG >>> >> They ride Honda, not Harley? I've never seen police ride Japanese bikes >> anywhere. But Folsom PD and the CHP use BMW. >> > Heck, i used to ride an ex-police Kawasaki myself. Common in the Far > west US. Kind of unusual, considering that they typically never buy foreign brands for their cruisers. Although I think L.A. just started with electric Mini-Coopers but only for the volunteer force. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: JosephKK on 20 Sep 2009 01:59
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:32:36 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >JosephKK wrote: >> On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:03:31 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> Jim Thompson wrote: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>> Young man, queuing up to be cancer-victim-Duane's replacement, is, of >>>> all things, the maintenance shop manager for the Chandler Police >>>> Department... >>>> >>>> http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/AllisonAtMarksShop.JPG >>>> >>> They ride Honda, not Harley? I've never seen police ride Japanese bikes >>> anywhere. But Folsom PD and the CHP use BMW. >>> >> Heck, i used to ride an ex-police Kawasaki myself. Common in the Far >> west US. > > >Kind of unusual, considering that they typically never buy foreign >brands for their cruisers. Although I think L.A. just started with >electric Mini-Coopers but only for the volunteer force. BMW, Honda, and Motoguzzi seem to be the current most common for MC patrol vehicles. There are some HD, Suzuki, Yamaha and other brands. Kawasaki still seem to be used for MC interceptors. |