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From: Patrick Scheible on 17 May 2010 12:51 Morten Reistad <first(a)last.name> writes: > In article <w9zhbm73sk9.fsf(a)zipcon.net>, > Patrick Scheible <kkt(a)zipcon.net> wrote: > >Seebs <usenet-nospam(a)seebs.net> writes: > > > >> On 2010-05-17, Gene Wirchenko <genew(a)ocis.net> wrote: > >> > On 16 May 2010 14:32:22 GMT, Lewis > >> ><g.kreme(a)gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: > >> >>It won't be long before we will be able to 'clean' undesired genes, and > >> >>the technology to select embryos based on genes is already with us. Not > >> >>saying anyone is actually doing this, but the technology exists. > >> > >> > Define "undesired genes". > >> > >> Ones that the parents don't want. > > > >I think that definition lacks something. In some countries, that > >would include being female. > > > >> I don't think you'd see much complaint, though, if we just eliminated > >> cystic fibrosis entirely. > > > >That would be good... > > That gene is intertwined with the northern european mutation that > gives a much higher lactosis tolerance in adults. It made the > northern pastoralian economy possible. > > Since I don't have that gene, I cannot drink much milk. My uncle, > as MD, diagnosed it as "a condition you share with 80% of the world's > adult population; "weaned"". He stubbornly refused to clessify it as > a disease. Really? Lots and lots of adults *can* drink milk, including me, even when CF doesn't run in their families. CF is a deeply countersurvival gene. It wasn't until about 30 years ago that people with full CF lived past puberty. -- Patrick
From: Seebs on 17 May 2010 12:56 On 2010-05-17, Patrick Scheible <kkt(a)zipcon.net> wrote: > Seebs <usenet-nospam(a)seebs.net> writes: > >> On 2010-05-17, Gene Wirchenko <genew(a)ocis.net> wrote: >> > On 16 May 2010 14:32:22 GMT, Lewis >> ><g.kreme(a)gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: >> >>It won't be long before we will be able to 'clean' undesired genes, and >> >>the technology to select embryos based on genes is already with us. Not >> >>saying anyone is actually doing this, but the technology exists. >> > Define "undesired genes". >> Ones that the parents don't want. > I think that definition lacks something. In some countries, that > would include being female. Well. That it would. And I'd point out that the technology to "clean" those genes is well-understood, and has been for a long time, and that it has resulted in serious problems. Note that I have not asserted that it is always, or even usually, *good* for people to have this technology, or use it. I merely assert that this is a reasonably clear definition of "undesired genes" which allows us to reasonably assert that "It won't be long before we will be able to 'clean' undesired genes". >> I don't think you'd see much complaint, though, if we just eliminated >> cystic fibrosis entirely. > That would be good... A friend of mine had CF. He was the fourth of four kids, ALL of whom had CF. He hated his parents. It was a real trump card for abortion debates, though. "You wouldn't even BE here if your mom had aborted." "Yes, I know, and I wish she had." -s -- Copyright 2010, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam(a)seebs.net http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
From: Patrick Scheible on 17 May 2010 13:54 Seebs <usenet-nospam(a)seebs.net> writes: > On 2010-05-17, Patrick Scheible <kkt(a)zipcon.net> wrote: > > Seebs <usenet-nospam(a)seebs.net> writes: > > > >> On 2010-05-17, Gene Wirchenko <genew(a)ocis.net> wrote: > >> > On 16 May 2010 14:32:22 GMT, Lewis > >> ><g.kreme(a)gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: > >> >>It won't be long before we will be able to 'clean' undesired genes, and > >> >>the technology to select embryos based on genes is already with us. Not > >> >>saying anyone is actually doing this, but the technology exists. > > >> > Define "undesired genes". > > >> Ones that the parents don't want. > > > I think that definition lacks something. In some countries, that > > would include being female. > > Well. That it would. And I'd point out that the technology to "clean" those > genes is well-understood, and has been for a long time, and that it has > resulted in serious problems. > > Note that I have not asserted that it is always, or even usually, *good* > for people to have this technology, or use it. I merely assert that this > is a reasonably clear definition of "undesired genes" which allows us to > reasonably assert that "It won't be long before we will be able to 'clean' > undesired genes". > > >> I don't think you'd see much complaint, though, if we just eliminated > >> cystic fibrosis entirely. > > > That would be good... > > A friend of mine had CF. He was the fourth of four kids, ALL of whom had > CF. He hated his parents. It was a real trump card for abortion debates, > though. "You wouldn't even BE here if your mom had aborted." "Yes, I know, > and I wish she had." My first girlfriend, way back when, had CF. Yes, you'd think that by the time the parents knew they both carried CF, they'd adopt if they still wanted kids. -- Patrick
From: Morten Reistad on 17 May 2010 14:23 In article <w9zy6fi8o9x.fsf(a)zipcon.net>, Patrick Scheible <kkt(a)zipcon.net> wrote: >Morten Reistad <first(a)last.name> writes: > >> >That would be good... >> >> That gene is intertwined with the northern european mutation that >> gives a much higher lactosis tolerance in adults. It made the >> northern pastoralian economy possible. >> >> Since I don't have that gene, I cannot drink much milk. My uncle, >> as MD, diagnosed it as "a condition you share with 80% of the world's >> adult population; "weaned"". He stubbornly refused to clessify it as >> a disease. > >Really? Lots and lots of adults *can* drink milk, including me, >even when CF doesn't run in their families. It is a combination of effects, where the "lactose tolerance mutation" is required, but not sufficient. This lactosis gene is present in around 20% of humans; concentrated in people originating in northern europe and the balkans, where almost everyone have it; and a lot rarer in the rest of the world (but still present). There are pockets of this gene almost everywhere. >CF is a deeply countersurvival gene. It wasn't until about 30 years >ago that people with full CF lived past puberty. -- mrr
From: Peter Flass on 17 May 2010 17:09
Seebs wrote: > On 2010-05-17, Patrick Scheible <kkt(a)zipcon.net> wrote: >> Seebs <usenet-nospam(a)seebs.net> writes: >> > >> I think that definition lacks something. In some countries, that >> would include being female. > > Well. That it would. And I'd point out that the technology to "clean" those > genes is well-understood, and has been for a long time, and that it has > resulted in serious problems. Things are going to get interesting in a few years. Already Asia has a surplus of males. What's going to happen? Are they going to go to polyandry? It would seem to make being female there a valuable trait. Are they going to import women? Are women going to demand hude dowries? |