Global warming?
in [Design]
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From: Bill Sloman on 8 Jan 2010 06:56 On Jan 8, 1:29 am, John Larkin <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:25:25 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman > > > > > > <bill.slo...(a)ieee.org> wrote: > >On Jan 7, 11:28 pm, John Larkin > ><jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 09:52:31 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman > > >> <bill.slo...(a)ieee.org> wrote: > >> >On Jan 7, 5:53 pm, John Larkin > >> ><jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >> >> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 07:12:35 -0500, Bitrex > > >> >> <bit...(a)de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote: > >> >> >Michael A. Terrell wrote: > >> >> >> No damn way! > > >> >> >> It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are > >> >> >> forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold > >> >> >> spells on record with another cold front headed this way. > > >> >> >I made 3 three-point shots while playing basketball today out of the 4 I > >> >> >attempted. With a three point shot percentage of 75% I am therefore the > >> >> >greatest basketball player who ever lived. > > >> >> >One should use care in making global conclusions using only local data > >> >> >points. > > >> >> Well, the alarmists weren't shy about blaming every storm, beach > >> >> erosion, hot spell, change in butterfly population, or the weigh of a > >> >> herd of sheep on Global Warming. > > >> >That wasn't the serious proponenets of anthropogenic global warming, > >> >but merely idle journalists, looking for a hook on which to hang their > >> >latest weather story. Only the the feather-brained would take them > >> >seriously. > > >> You mean peer-reviewed journals? > > >No. Journalists write newspaper articles, articles in peer-reviewd > >journals are witten by scientists. If you want your opinions about > >anthropogenic global warming to be taken seriously, this is one of the > >bits of information that you will need to master. There are others. > > If you want your opinions about electronic design to be taken > seriously, you should actually do some once in a while. Master that! Been there, done that, despite your equally ill-informed opinion on that subject. > AGW is not the topic here. Or so you claim, whenever someone points out that your opinions about AGW are ill-informed. > >> Cold kills: > > >>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article6979830.ece > > >> I've seen serious estimates that suggest that in the US and Europe, > >> cool snaps kill about four times as many people as heat waves. > > >But you can't actually cite any such estimate. > > >> Plants like warmth and CO2, too. > > >Up to a point. Few plants have to good fortune to be exposed to enough > >of every other nutrient to allow them to take advantage of higher CO2 > >levels - the geological record tells us that plants mainly take > >advantage of higher CO2 levels by reducing the number of stoma on the > >underside of their leaves so that they can collect the same amount of > >CO2 while losing less water. > > That's the way multivariate optimization works. That the way multivariate optimisation works when most plants don't suffer from any shortage of CO2 - it is their most easily available nutrient, after all. Other plants can steal their sunlight (by growing taller) but CO2 is always available. -- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
From: Bill Sloman on 8 Jan 2010 07:02 On Jan 8, 1:32 am, John Larkin <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:25:39 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodb...(a)yahoo.com > wrote: > > >On Jan 7, 11:53 am, John Larkin > ><jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 07:12:35 -0500, Bitrex > > >> <bit...(a)de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote: > >> >Michael A. Terrell wrote: > >> >> No damn way! > > >> >> It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are > >> >> forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold > >> >> spells on record with another cold front headed this way. > > >> >I made 3 three-point shots while playing basketball today out of the 4 I > >> >attempted. With a three point shot percentage of 75% I am therefore the > >> >greatest basketball player who ever lived. > > >> >One should use care in making global conclusions using only local data > >> >points. > > >> Well, the alarmists weren't shy about blaming every storm, beach > >> erosion, hot spell, change in butterfly population, or the weigh of a > >> herd of sheep on Global Warming. > > >>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8445613.stm > > >> John > > >Not to worry, we're still doomed: > > http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=9495864 > > Another Ice Age would be "just a blip in the long-term heating trend." I think you are letting your over-fertile imagination run away here. > Just keep extending the definition of "weather" and "climate" as suits > your political needs. The way you do? You and James Arthur do seem enthusiastic about confusing weather models (which are susceptible to the butterfly effect) and climate models (which are deliberately onstructed so that they aren't). In your case it seems to be simple ignorance, but James Arthur pretends - not all that successfully - to greater expertise. -- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
From: Bill Sloman on 8 Jan 2010 07:03 On Jan 8, 1:30 am, John Larkin <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 23:55:18 +0000, Raveninghorde > > > > > > <raveninghorde(a)invalid> wrote: > >On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:25:25 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman > ><bill.slo...(a)ieee.org> wrote: > > >SNIP > > >. > > >>> Cold kills: > > >>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article6979830.ece > > >>> I've seen serious estimates that suggest that in the US and Europe, > >>> cool snaps kill about four times as many people as heat waves. > > >>But you can't actually cite any such estimate. > > >One estimate of winter deaths here: > > >http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/06/winter-kills-excess-deaths-in-t... > > >/quote > > >108,500 Deaths in the US in 2008; 36,700 in England and Wales Last > >Winter; 5,600 in Canada (2006); 7,000 in Australia (1997-2006 > >Average); Thousands in Other Developed Countries > > >/end quote > > >SNIP > > Sloman apparently doesn't know how to google. You were putting forward the claim; I was pointing out that you didn't seem to have been able to google up any decent support for your claim. -- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
From: Raveninghorde on 8 Jan 2010 07:04 On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 03:46:22 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman <bill.sloman(a)ieee.org> wrote: >On Jan 8, 12:55�am, Raveninghorde <raveninghorde(a)invalid> wrote: >> On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:25:25 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman >> >> <bill.slo...(a)ieee.org> wrote: >> >> SNIP >> >> . >> >> >> >> >> Cold kills: >> >> >>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article6979830.ece >> >> >> I've seen serious estimates that suggest that in the US and Europe, >> >> cool snaps kill about four times as many people as heat waves. >> >> >But you can't actually cite any such estimate. >> >> One estimate of winter deaths here: >> >> http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/06/winter-kills-excess-deaths-in-t... >> >> /quote >> >> 108,500 Deaths in the US in 2008; 36,700 in England and Wales Last >> Winter; 5,600 in Canada (2006); 7,000 in Australia (1997-2006 >> Average); Thousands in Other Developed Countries >> >> /end quote > >As you'd expect from a denialist web-site, they don't mention that hot >summers also generate excess deaths, and haven't cited any numbers >from tropical countries where excess deaths peak in summer, rather >than winter - human beings did evolve in tropical Africa, and rarely >run into excessive heat in temperate countries, though it does happen >from time to time > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave Once again you are proving yourself an inumerate idiot. Since the article is dealing with excess winter deaths normal summers are accounted for. As for your wiki article 14802 people died on France due to the summer heatwave of 2003. The figure in the article for France for excess winter deaths is 24938 on average. So a simple sum shows that a hot summer killed 10,000 fewer people than an average winter in France. As far as the tropics are concerned this seems to be a red herring from an alarmist perspective. I thought the normal claim was that anthropogenic global warming would have much more impact on the non tropics compared to the tropics. But hey AGW explains everything including the common cold.
From: John Larkin on 8 Jan 2010 10:26
On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 04:02:50 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman <bill.sloman(a)ieee.org> wrote: >On Jan 8, 1:32�am, John Larkin ><jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:25:39 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodb...(a)yahoo.com >> wrote: >> >> >On Jan 7, 11:53�am, John Larkin >> ><jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> >> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 07:12:35 -0500, Bitrex >> >> >> <bit...(a)de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote: >> >> >Michael A. Terrell wrote: >> >> >> No damn way! >> >> >> >> It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are >> >> >> forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold >> >> >> spells on record with another cold front headed this way. >> >> >> >I made 3 three-point shots while playing basketball today out of the 4 I >> >> >attempted. �With a three point shot percentage of 75% I am therefore the >> >> >greatest basketball player who ever lived. >> >> >> >One should use care in making global conclusions using only local data >> >> >points. >> >> >> Well, the alarmists weren't shy about blaming every storm, beach >> >> erosion, hot spell, change in butterfly population, or the weigh of a >> >> herd of sheep on Global Warming. >> >> >>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8445613.stm >> >> >> John >> >> >Not to worry, we're still doomed: >> > �http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=9495864 >> >> Another Ice Age would be "just a blip in the long-term heating trend." > >I think you are letting your over-fertile imagination run away here. > >> Just keep extending the definition of "weather" and "climate" as suits >> your political needs. > >The way you do? You and James Arthur do seem enthusiastic about >confusing weather models (which are susceptible to the butterfly >effect) and climate models (which are deliberately onstructed so that >they aren't). The only way to construct a climate simulation that isn't chaotic is to get it entirely wrong. John |