How does crimping work?
in [Repair]
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From: Sylvia Else on 2 Dec 2009 07:18 F Murtz wrote: > F Murtz wrote: >> Sylvia Else wrote: >>> F Murtz wrote: >>>> Sylvia Else wrote: >>>>> F Murtz wrote: >>>>>> Sylvia Else wrote: >>>>>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote: >>>>>>>> In article <0073ddf9$0$8184$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com>, >>>>>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> If by fully insulated you mean the red blue and yellow types >>>>>>>>>> available in >>>>>>>>>> a variety of configurations - the colour determining the cable >>>>>>>>>> sizes >>>>>>>>>> catered for - they vary wildly in quality by maker, as do the >>>>>>>>>> crimp >>>>>>>>>> tools. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PT4525 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The particular application is connecting to the terminals of an >>>>>>>>> SLA, >>>>>>>>> so these connectors have the advantage of minimising the scope for >>>>>>>>> extraneous contact when they're in place. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Shame they perform so badly on the pull test. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I too have seen these red terminals pull off a cable within their >>>>>>>> stated >>>>>>>> range. >>>>>>>> I prefer non insulated 1/4 in spade connectors that have a separate >>>>>>>> insulating cover. They have a better cable clamp too. This sort:- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/terminalsnonins/noninsblades.php >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Made of brass, strangely. ;-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've noticed what is probably a significant difference between the >>>>>>> failed lugs, and the other type that seem OK. It lies in the >>>>>>> length of >>>>>>> the metal that gets crimped. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The tool I'm using is one of these: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4b15ceb90184983c273fc0a87e0106a4/Product/View/T3535 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It seems designed to crimp equally* two locations spaced apart. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But the metal on the failed lugs is too short, and one side of the >>>>>>> tool >>>>>>> is just crimping plastic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [*] I emphasis "equally". Lest anyone think I've misunderstood, >>>>>>> this is >>>>>>> not a tool designed to crimp the conductor and insulator in one go. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sylvia. >>>>>>> >>>>>> The smaller of the two crimps is for the cable connection and the >>>>>> larger bit just crimps the lug insulation round the cable insulation. >>>>> >>>>> As I said, they are equal. >>>>> >>>>> Sylvia. >>>> Have a closer look, there is not much difference. Yours may be equal >>>> mine is not. In any case the right side or the flat side is for the >>>> cable connection and the left for the insulation. >>>> They may have changed the design as I noticed my crimper does not work >>>> as well with the newer lugs that seem to have different insulation. >>> >>> If these aren't identical, it's going to take measuring instruments to >>> prove it. >>> >>> Crimping the plastic is a waste of time anyway. On the failed lugs that >>> I crimped, the plastic that covers the insulation has returned almost to >>> its original shape, even though the tool squashes it pretty much flat. >>> >>> I know that there are tools designed to crimp this sort of lug >>> >>> http://au.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/sto-1-0t-250n/terminal-female-6-3x0-8mm/dp/3625436 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> in one action, where the section closer to the spade crimps the >>> conductor, and the section at the end crimps the insulation, but the >>> tool I have is definitely not one of those. >>> >>> Sylvia. >> The tool designed for that sort of lug has a knife edge bit in one side >> of the crimp jaws which make a heart shape of the crimp. >> Your crimper looks the same as mine in the jaws with the exception of >> the size variation I am certain that the flat side or right side goes >> toward the lug >> and the side that sticks out is the cable side and is designed to crimp >> the lug insulation to the cable insulation. >> If you place the lug in the jaws with the cable side on the left you >> will see that the crimps line up to do what I described.I am going to >> check and may buy one similar to yours because some of my new lugs do >> not fit old one with bigger insulation crimp on left. > > I don't know if this will work One makes the heart shape crimp the other > is similar to yours except it is not ratchet but works like vice grips. > http://picasaweb.google.com/FMurtz9/Lugs?authkey=Gv1sRgCK2Pr6z7-ZOEvAE The teeth(?) look much the same in all cases. I originally envisaged something would push down further in the centre, to create the desired shape, but it appears they down't work that way. FWIW, here are images of both sides the business end of my tool http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/crimptool.jpg The bottom one is a mirror image, to make comparison easier. Sylvia.
From: F Murtz on 2 Dec 2009 07:21 F Murtz wrote: > F Murtz wrote: >> Sylvia Else wrote: >>> F Murtz wrote: >>>> Sylvia Else wrote: >>>>> F Murtz wrote: >>>>>> Sylvia Else wrote: >>>>>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote: >>>>>>>> In article <0073ddf9$0$8184$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com>, >>>>>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> If by fully insulated you mean the red blue and yellow types >>>>>>>>>> available in >>>>>>>>>> a variety of configurations - the colour determining the cable >>>>>>>>>> sizes >>>>>>>>>> catered for - they vary wildly in quality by maker, as do the >>>>>>>>>> crimp >>>>>>>>>> tools. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PT4525 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The particular application is connecting to the terminals of an >>>>>>>>> SLA, >>>>>>>>> so these connectors have the advantage of minimising the scope for >>>>>>>>> extraneous contact when they're in place. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Shame they perform so badly on the pull test. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I too have seen these red terminals pull off a cable within their >>>>>>>> stated >>>>>>>> range. >>>>>>>> I prefer non insulated 1/4 in spade connectors that have a separate >>>>>>>> insulating cover. They have a better cable clamp too. This sort:- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/terminalsnonins/noninsblades.php >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Made of brass, strangely. ;-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've noticed what is probably a significant difference between the >>>>>>> failed lugs, and the other type that seem OK. It lies in the >>>>>>> length of >>>>>>> the metal that gets crimped. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The tool I'm using is one of these: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4b15ceb90184983c273fc0a87e0106a4/Product/View/T3535 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It seems designed to crimp equally* two locations spaced apart. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But the metal on the failed lugs is too short, and one side of the >>>>>>> tool >>>>>>> is just crimping plastic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [*] I emphasis "equally". Lest anyone think I've misunderstood, >>>>>>> this is >>>>>>> not a tool designed to crimp the conductor and insulator in one go. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sylvia. >>>>>>> >>>>>> The smaller of the two crimps is for the cable connection and the >>>>>> larger bit just crimps the lug insulation round the cable insulation. >>>>> >>>>> As I said, they are equal. >>>>> >>>>> Sylvia. >>>> Have a closer look, there is not much difference. Yours may be equal >>>> mine is not. In any case the right side or the flat side is for the >>>> cable connection and the left for the insulation. >>>> They may have changed the design as I noticed my crimper does not work >>>> as well with the newer lugs that seem to have different insulation. >>> >>> If these aren't identical, it's going to take measuring instruments to >>> prove it. >>> >>> Crimping the plastic is a waste of time anyway. On the failed lugs that >>> I crimped, the plastic that covers the insulation has returned almost to >>> its original shape, even though the tool squashes it pretty much flat. >>> >>> I know that there are tools designed to crimp this sort of lug >>> >>> http://au.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/sto-1-0t-250n/terminal-female-6-3x0-8mm/dp/3625436 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> in one action, where the section closer to the spade crimps the >>> conductor, and the section at the end crimps the insulation, but the >>> tool I have is definitely not one of those. >>> >>> Sylvia. >> The tool designed for that sort of lug has a knife edge bit in one side >> of the crimp jaws which make a heart shape of the crimp. >> Your crimper looks the same as mine in the jaws with the exception of >> the size variation I am certain that the flat side or right side goes >> toward the lug >> and the side that sticks out is the cable side and is designed to crimp >> the lug insulation to the cable insulation. >> If you place the lug in the jaws with the cable side on the left you >> will see that the crimps line up to do what I described.I am going to >> check and may buy one similar to yours because some of my new lugs do >> not fit old one with bigger insulation crimp on left. > > I don't know if this will work One makes the heart shape crimp the other > is similar to yours except it is not ratchet but works like vice grips. > http://picasaweb.google.com/FMurtz9/Lugs?authkey=Gv1sRgCK2Pr6z7-ZOEvAE I am going to wear out the reply button. The heart shaped is for those non insulated open lugs you showed an url for earlier here is a couple more pics, I think,new at this pic posting http://picasaweb.google.com/FMurtz9/Lugs1?authkey=Gv1sRgCODVs7zcofCqDg
From: F Murtz on 2 Dec 2009 07:24 Sylvia Else wrote: > F Murtz wrote: >> F Murtz wrote: >>> Sylvia Else wrote: >>>> F Murtz wrote: >>>>> Sylvia Else wrote: >>>>>> F Murtz wrote: >>>>>>> Sylvia Else wrote: >>>>>>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote: >>>>>>>>> In article <0073ddf9$0$8184$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com>, >>>>>>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> If by fully insulated you mean the red blue and yellow types >>>>>>>>>>> available in >>>>>>>>>>> a variety of configurations - the colour determining the cable >>>>>>>>>>> sizes >>>>>>>>>>> catered for - they vary wildly in quality by maker, as do the >>>>>>>>>>> crimp >>>>>>>>>>> tools. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PT4525 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The particular application is connecting to the terminals of an >>>>>>>>>> SLA, >>>>>>>>>> so these connectors have the advantage of minimising the scope >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> extraneous contact when they're in place. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Shame they perform so badly on the pull test. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I too have seen these red terminals pull off a cable within their >>>>>>>>> stated >>>>>>>>> range. >>>>>>>>> I prefer non insulated 1/4 in spade connectors that have a >>>>>>>>> separate >>>>>>>>> insulating cover. They have a better cable clamp too. This sort:- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/terminalsnonins/noninsblades.php >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Made of brass, strangely. ;-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've noticed what is probably a significant difference between the >>>>>>>> failed lugs, and the other type that seem OK. It lies in the >>>>>>>> length of >>>>>>>> the metal that gets crimped. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The tool I'm using is one of these: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4b15ceb90184983c273fc0a87e0106a4/Product/View/T3535 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It seems designed to crimp equally* two locations spaced apart. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But the metal on the failed lugs is too short, and one side of the >>>>>>>> tool >>>>>>>> is just crimping plastic. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [*] I emphasis "equally". Lest anyone think I've misunderstood, >>>>>>>> this is >>>>>>>> not a tool designed to crimp the conductor and insulator in one go. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sylvia. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> The smaller of the two crimps is for the cable connection and the >>>>>>> larger bit just crimps the lug insulation round the cable >>>>>>> insulation. >>>>>> >>>>>> As I said, they are equal. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sylvia. >>>>> Have a closer look, there is not much difference. Yours may be equal >>>>> mine is not. In any case the right side or the flat side is for the >>>>> cable connection and the left for the insulation. >>>>> They may have changed the design as I noticed my crimper does not work >>>>> as well with the newer lugs that seem to have different insulation. >>>> >>>> If these aren't identical, it's going to take measuring instruments to >>>> prove it. >>>> >>>> Crimping the plastic is a waste of time anyway. On the failed lugs that >>>> I crimped, the plastic that covers the insulation has returned >>>> almost to >>>> its original shape, even though the tool squashes it pretty much flat. >>>> >>>> I know that there are tools designed to crimp this sort of lug >>>> >>>> http://au.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/sto-1-0t-250n/terminal-female-6-3x0-8mm/dp/3625436 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> in one action, where the section closer to the spade crimps the >>>> conductor, and the section at the end crimps the insulation, but the >>>> tool I have is definitely not one of those. >>>> >>>> Sylvia. >>> The tool designed for that sort of lug has a knife edge bit in one side >>> of the crimp jaws which make a heart shape of the crimp. >>> Your crimper looks the same as mine in the jaws with the exception of >>> the size variation I am certain that the flat side or right side goes >>> toward the lug >>> and the side that sticks out is the cable side and is designed to crimp >>> the lug insulation to the cable insulation. >>> If you place the lug in the jaws with the cable side on the left you >>> will see that the crimps line up to do what I described.I am going to >>> check and may buy one similar to yours because some of my new lugs do >>> not fit old one with bigger insulation crimp on left. >> >> I don't know if this will work One makes the heart shape crimp the >> other is similar to yours except it is not ratchet but works like vice >> grips. >> http://picasaweb.google.com/FMurtz9/Lugs?authkey=Gv1sRgCK2Pr6z7-ZOEvAE > > The teeth(?) look much the same in all cases. I originally envisaged > something would push down further in the centre, to create the desired > shape, but it appears they down't work that way. > > FWIW, here are images of both sides the business end of my tool > > http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/crimptool.jpg > > The bottom one is a mirror image, to make comparison easier. > > Sylvia. Yours have teeth mine does not that is why I have a separate crimper with more defined knife edge. It looks as if yours tries to be dual purpose.
From: Dave Plowman (News) on 2 Dec 2009 06:15 In article <00879530$0$8181$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com>, Sylvia Else <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote: > Crimping the plastic is a waste of time anyway. On the failed lugs that > I crimped, the plastic that covers the insulation has returned almost to > its original shape, even though the tool squashes it pretty much flat. Something wrong there. The plastic acts as the cord clamp. -- *The modem is the message * Dave Plowman dave(a)davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound.
From: Sylvia Else on 2 Dec 2009 07:55
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: > In article <00879530$0$8181$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com>, > Sylvia Else <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote: >> Crimping the plastic is a waste of time anyway. On the failed lugs that >> I crimped, the plastic that covers the insulation has returned almost to >> its original shape, even though the tool squashes it pretty much flat. > > Something wrong there. The plastic acts as the cord clamp. > Clearly doesn't work in the case of these particular lugs. Sylvia. |