How does crimping work?
in [Repair]
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From: Dave Plowman (News) on 2 Dec 2009 05:45 In article <0091a17e$0$23351$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com>, Sylvia Else <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote: > I've noticed what is probably a significant difference between the > failed lugs, and the other type that seem OK. It lies in the length of > the metal that gets crimped. > The tool I'm using is one of these: > http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4b15ceb90184983c273fc0a87e0106a4/Product/View/T3535 > It seems designed to crimp equally* two locations spaced apart. > But the metal on the failed lugs is too short, and one side of the tool > is just crimping plastic. > [*] I emphasis "equally". Lest anyone think I've misunderstood, this is > not a tool designed to crimp the conductor and insulator in one go. My dislike of the pre-insulated types is the crimp consists of flattening the part in contact with the cable. A link was posted earlier by Trevor Wilson where the first pic shows the type I prefer:- http://www.ami.ac.uk/courses/topics/0119_crmp/index.html You can't produce this sort of shape with a pre-insulated type as it would pierce the insulation. But then the pre-insulated types are used (in the UK) on mains wiring etc where the conductor is a single strand. And a heart shaped crimp wouldn't work with those. -- *Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups * Dave Plowman dave(a)davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound.
From: Dave Plowman (News) on 2 Dec 2009 05:49 In article <4b14f559$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au>, F Murtz <haggisz(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Spade connectors have to have different properties to lugs because they > rely on spring tension for electrical continuity but proper bolt on lugs > are usually copper for copper cables, aluminium for aluminium cables. Agreed. But I've a feeling 'lug' is used as a very broad term. -- *It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser. Dave Plowman dave(a)davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound.
From: Sylvia Else on 2 Dec 2009 06:00 F Murtz wrote: > Sylvia Else wrote: >> F Murtz wrote: >>> Sylvia Else wrote: >>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote: >>>>> In article <0073ddf9$0$8184$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com>, >>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote: >>>>>>> If by fully insulated you mean the red blue and yellow types >>>>>>> available in >>>>>>> a variety of configurations - the colour determining the cable sizes >>>>>>> catered for - they vary wildly in quality by maker, as do the crimp >>>>>>> tools. >>>>> >>>>>> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PT4525 >>>>> >>>>>> The particular application is connecting to the terminals of an SLA, >>>>>> so these connectors have the advantage of minimising the scope for >>>>>> extraneous contact when they're in place. >>>>> >>>>>> Shame they perform so badly on the pull test. >>>>> >>>>> I too have seen these red terminals pull off a cable within their >>>>> stated >>>>> range. >>>>> I prefer non insulated 1/4 in spade connectors that have a separate >>>>> insulating cover. They have a better cable clamp too. This sort:- >>>>> >>>>> http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/terminalsnonins/noninsblades.php >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Made of brass, strangely. ;-) >>>>> >>>> >>>> I've noticed what is probably a significant difference between the >>>> failed lugs, and the other type that seem OK. It lies in the length of >>>> the metal that gets crimped. >>>> >>>> The tool I'm using is one of these: >>>> >>>> http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4b15ceb90184983c273fc0a87e0106a4/Product/View/T3535 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It seems designed to crimp equally* two locations spaced apart. >>>> >>>> But the metal on the failed lugs is too short, and one side of the tool >>>> is just crimping plastic. >>>> >>>> [*] I emphasis "equally". Lest anyone think I've misunderstood, this is >>>> not a tool designed to crimp the conductor and insulator in one go. >>>> >>>> Sylvia. >>>> >>> The smaller of the two crimps is for the cable connection and the >>> larger bit just crimps the lug insulation round the cable insulation. >> >> As I said, they are equal. >> >> Sylvia. > Have a closer look, there is not much difference. Yours may be equal > mine is not. In any case the right side or the flat side is for the > cable connection and the left for the insulation. > They may have changed the design as I noticed my crimper does not work > as well with the newer lugs that seem to have different insulation. If these aren't identical, it's going to take measuring instruments to prove it. Crimping the plastic is a waste of time anyway. On the failed lugs that I crimped, the plastic that covers the insulation has returned almost to its original shape, even though the tool squashes it pretty much flat. I know that there are tools designed to crimp this sort of lug http://au.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/sto-1-0t-250n/terminal-female-6-3x0-8mm/dp/3625436 in one action, where the section closer to the spade crimps the conductor, and the section at the end crimps the insulation, but the tool I have is definitely not one of those. Sylvia.
From: F Murtz on 2 Dec 2009 06:28 Sylvia Else wrote: > F Murtz wrote: >> Sylvia Else wrote: >>> F Murtz wrote: >>>> Sylvia Else wrote: >>>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote: >>>>>> In article <0073ddf9$0$8184$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com>, >>>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote: >>>>>>>> If by fully insulated you mean the red blue and yellow types >>>>>>>> available in >>>>>>>> a variety of configurations - the colour determining the cable >>>>>>>> sizes >>>>>>>> catered for - they vary wildly in quality by maker, as do the crimp >>>>>>>> tools. >>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PT4525 >>>>>> >>>>>>> The particular application is connecting to the terminals of an SLA, >>>>>>> so these connectors have the advantage of minimising the scope for >>>>>>> extraneous contact when they're in place. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Shame they perform so badly on the pull test. >>>>>> >>>>>> I too have seen these red terminals pull off a cable within their >>>>>> stated >>>>>> range. >>>>>> I prefer non insulated 1/4 in spade connectors that have a separate >>>>>> insulating cover. They have a better cable clamp too. This sort:- >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/terminalsnonins/noninsblades.php >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Made of brass, strangely. ;-) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I've noticed what is probably a significant difference between the >>>>> failed lugs, and the other type that seem OK. It lies in the length of >>>>> the metal that gets crimped. >>>>> >>>>> The tool I'm using is one of these: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4b15ceb90184983c273fc0a87e0106a4/Product/View/T3535 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It seems designed to crimp equally* two locations spaced apart. >>>>> >>>>> But the metal on the failed lugs is too short, and one side of the >>>>> tool >>>>> is just crimping plastic. >>>>> >>>>> [*] I emphasis "equally". Lest anyone think I've misunderstood, >>>>> this is >>>>> not a tool designed to crimp the conductor and insulator in one go. >>>>> >>>>> Sylvia. >>>>> >>>> The smaller of the two crimps is for the cable connection and the >>>> larger bit just crimps the lug insulation round the cable insulation. >>> >>> As I said, they are equal. >>> >>> Sylvia. >> Have a closer look, there is not much difference. Yours may be equal >> mine is not. In any case the right side or the flat side is for the >> cable connection and the left for the insulation. >> They may have changed the design as I noticed my crimper does not work >> as well with the newer lugs that seem to have different insulation. > > If these aren't identical, it's going to take measuring instruments to > prove it. > > Crimping the plastic is a waste of time anyway. On the failed lugs that > I crimped, the plastic that covers the insulation has returned almost to > its original shape, even though the tool squashes it pretty much flat. > > I know that there are tools designed to crimp this sort of lug > > http://au.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/sto-1-0t-250n/terminal-female-6-3x0-8mm/dp/3625436 > > > in one action, where the section closer to the spade crimps the > conductor, and the section at the end crimps the insulation, but the > tool I have is definitely not one of those. > > Sylvia. The tool designed for that sort of lug has a knife edge bit in one side of the crimp jaws which make a heart shape of the crimp. Your crimper looks the same as mine in the jaws with the exception of the size variation I am certain that the flat side or right side goes toward the lug and the side that sticks out is the cable side and is designed to crimp the lug insulation to the cable insulation. If you place the lug in the jaws with the cable side on the left you will see that the crimps line up to do what I described.I am going to check and may buy one similar to yours because some of my new lugs do not fit old one with bigger insulation crimp on left.
From: F Murtz on 2 Dec 2009 07:01
F Murtz wrote: > Sylvia Else wrote: >> F Murtz wrote: >>> Sylvia Else wrote: >>>> F Murtz wrote: >>>>> Sylvia Else wrote: >>>>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote: >>>>>>> In article <0073ddf9$0$8184$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com>, >>>>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote: >>>>>>>>> If by fully insulated you mean the red blue and yellow types >>>>>>>>> available in >>>>>>>>> a variety of configurations - the colour determining the cable >>>>>>>>> sizes >>>>>>>>> catered for - they vary wildly in quality by maker, as do the >>>>>>>>> crimp >>>>>>>>> tools. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PT4525 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The particular application is connecting to the terminals of an >>>>>>>> SLA, >>>>>>>> so these connectors have the advantage of minimising the scope for >>>>>>>> extraneous contact when they're in place. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Shame they perform so badly on the pull test. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I too have seen these red terminals pull off a cable within their >>>>>>> stated >>>>>>> range. >>>>>>> I prefer non insulated 1/4 in spade connectors that have a separate >>>>>>> insulating cover. They have a better cable clamp too. This sort:- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/terminalsnonins/noninsblades.php >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Made of brass, strangely. ;-) >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I've noticed what is probably a significant difference between the >>>>>> failed lugs, and the other type that seem OK. It lies in the >>>>>> length of >>>>>> the metal that gets crimped. >>>>>> >>>>>> The tool I'm using is one of these: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4b15ceb90184983c273fc0a87e0106a4/Product/View/T3535 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It seems designed to crimp equally* two locations spaced apart. >>>>>> >>>>>> But the metal on the failed lugs is too short, and one side of the >>>>>> tool >>>>>> is just crimping plastic. >>>>>> >>>>>> [*] I emphasis "equally". Lest anyone think I've misunderstood, >>>>>> this is >>>>>> not a tool designed to crimp the conductor and insulator in one go. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sylvia. >>>>>> >>>>> The smaller of the two crimps is for the cable connection and the >>>>> larger bit just crimps the lug insulation round the cable insulation. >>>> >>>> As I said, they are equal. >>>> >>>> Sylvia. >>> Have a closer look, there is not much difference. Yours may be equal >>> mine is not. In any case the right side or the flat side is for the >>> cable connection and the left for the insulation. >>> They may have changed the design as I noticed my crimper does not work >>> as well with the newer lugs that seem to have different insulation. >> >> If these aren't identical, it's going to take measuring instruments to >> prove it. >> >> Crimping the plastic is a waste of time anyway. On the failed lugs that >> I crimped, the plastic that covers the insulation has returned almost to >> its original shape, even though the tool squashes it pretty much flat. >> >> I know that there are tools designed to crimp this sort of lug >> >> http://au.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/sto-1-0t-250n/terminal-female-6-3x0-8mm/dp/3625436 >> >> >> >> in one action, where the section closer to the spade crimps the >> conductor, and the section at the end crimps the insulation, but the >> tool I have is definitely not one of those. >> >> Sylvia. > The tool designed for that sort of lug has a knife edge bit in one side > of the crimp jaws which make a heart shape of the crimp. > Your crimper looks the same as mine in the jaws with the exception of > the size variation I am certain that the flat side or right side goes > toward the lug > and the side that sticks out is the cable side and is designed to crimp > the lug insulation to the cable insulation. > If you place the lug in the jaws with the cable side on the left you > will see that the crimps line up to do what I described.I am going to > check and may buy one similar to yours because some of my new lugs do > not fit old one with bigger insulation crimp on left. I don't know if this will work One makes the heart shape crimp the other is similar to yours except it is not ratchet but works like vice grips. http://picasaweb.google.com/FMurtz9/Lugs?authkey=Gv1sRgCK2Pr6z7-ZOEvAE |