If you had to move from VB6...
in [Visual Basic]
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From: Ulrich Korndoerfer on 15 Feb 2010 14:57 Hi, bitshifter(a)sympatico.ca schrieb: > ... > If I had to move from VB6, which language would I choose. > Which language would most resemble it in IDE, ease of coding and, yes, > RAD quality. > > I would accept a learning curve about the same I had to go through > with VB6. About a hundred hours to get a simple database program > running (from picking up the course book) and about a year or two to > get moderatly proficient in it. > > I came up with RealBasic, Delphi (though I heard it's on the way out), > maybe C# (but I would try to keep away from M$ stuff), and not Java. > > What do you think ? If you can bite the bullet C++, for desktop apps I would suggest Qt from Nokia (former Trolltech). They have a nice, fairly complete framework (that, btw, shields you from some of the badest C++ misconceptions), a very decent IDE that manages the full development cycle, and it has a completely free version, which allows development of commercial apps. Comes with extensive documentation, with thoroughfully detailed and explained code examples and tutorials, all integrated in the IDE. The IDE has a visual GUI builder (with one-click plumbing code creation) and a really very good code editor, that offers intellisense and all other things one would expect (like code folding, code completion, class browser, even text zoom and word wrap ;-). It has a sophisticated visual block marking feature and much more. It is multiplatform (Windows and Linux so far, also some mobile and embedded Oses), and does not treat the windows version as a poor cousin. Qt has been around for quite a while, is mature (current version is 4.6), actively developed, and used by many (also big) applications and even OS-managers (like KDE on Linux). The framework assists nice, modern GUIs, has sophisticated controls (including a html renderer based on Webkit), applications and html are scriptable with Javascript. It allows for flying windows, projectable (while staying fully functional) on 3d-surfaces, alphablending and color blending, skinning and the like :-) It has very good internationalization support build in to the box, decent action handling that can even make use or be controlled by a full fledged state machine. On Windows AFAIR the free version has basic support for COM (can use COM-servers). For full fledged COM including creation of COM-Servers one would have to buy the commercial version or program it on ones own. See <http://qt.nokia.com/> for further informations. However the learning curve will be rather steep. First because of the big framework (but this would be so on .NET too, and, to my oppinion, the Qt framework is better organized than the .NET one). And second because the programming language used is C++. This might be a show stopper. C++ is so ugly ;-) However the framework assists shipping around the most basic C++ gruelties, eg. has smart pointers, an automatic memory release feature based on parent-child relationships: when the parent goes, all childs go with him and their memory is cleaned up (including calls to finalizers if necessary). One strategy to survive would be to construct the parent (eg the main window object) on the stack (in the main routine) or static. Then cleanup is fully automatic. -- Ulrich Korndoerfer VB tips, helpers, solutions -> http://www.proSource.de/Downloads/
From: Bob O`Bob on 15 Feb 2010 15:17 Ralph wrote: > > Surprisingly. Delphi most resembles the 'Visual Basic Windows Development" > (vb5/6) product in terms of the IDE, ease of coding, and RAD. > > But that is a whole new language. Or a whole /old/ language. Personally, I learned to hate Pascal-the-language by the early 1980s. Even though it's "newer" than Basic, and came from similar roots, the verbosity of Basic remains far more approachable, and stays much more human-readable after one has forgotten one's own code. Bob --
From: Mike B on 15 Feb 2010 15:29 "Bob O`Bob" <filterbob(a)yahoogroups.com> wrote in message news:%23RkYyvnrKHA.3908(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Ralph wrote: > >> >> Surprisingly. Delphi most resembles the 'Visual Basic Windows >> Development" >> (vb5/6) product in terms of the IDE, ease of coding, and RAD. >> >> But that is a whole new language. > > > Or a whole /old/ language. > > > Personally, I learned to hate Pascal-the-language by the early 1980s. > Even though it's "newer" than Basic, and came from similar roots, > the verbosity of Basic remains far more approachable, and stays > much more human-readable after one has forgotten one's own code. > Human readable is largely (IME) to do with your own coding style. I pretty much use the same style I used with VB5/6 in my Delphi Code and it looks pretty readable to me. And all you guys (or gals (-; ) that had C exposure certainly wouldn't be off put by Delphi. You just replace the curly braces with "begin" and "end;" How hard could that be? I think once you get used to the scoping rules of the units, you have a fairly gentle slope to climb acclimating to the language. > > > Bob > --
From: Mike B on 15 Feb 2010 15:33 "Ralph" <nt_consulting64(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:uhkHd8mrKHA.5940(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > <bitshifter(a)sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:4b79674f.1840625(a)news.newshosting.com... >> In another thread, someone said that compared to VB Fred, VB6 was >> pathetic. >> >> This low attempt to turn me from my private choice of language slid >> off my back like water on a duck. >> >> However, it did pique my curiosity. >> >> If I had to move from VB6, which language would I choose. >> Which language would most resemble it in IDE, ease of coding and, yes, >> RAD quality. >> I didn't start using Delphi much until the .Nxt stuff started. I have been using D7 since then. I recently upgraded to D2010 but haven't installed it yet. The D2010 IDE includes both Delphi and C#, so there are some options there for flexibility, FWIW. > Surprisingly. Delphi most resembles the 'Visual Basic Windows Development" > (vb5/6) product in terms of the IDE, ease of coding, and RAD. > > But that is a whole new language. > >> I would accept a learning curve about the same I had to go through >> with VB6. About a hundred hours to get a simple database program >> running (from picking up the course book) and about a year or two to >> get moderatly proficient in it. >> > > Then Delphi would be it. Learning or rather re-learning will be quicker > since you already know the basics. > > [I don't use Delphi myself. This is just a personal observation from > watching many teams go that direction.] > >> I came up with RealBasic, Delphi (though I heard it's on the way out), >> maybe C# (but I would try to keep away from M$ stuff), and not Java. >> > > [PS: Delphi HAS always been on its way out. <g>] > > Unfortunately none of the BASICs would rank as a "step-forward". (IMHO) > All > are either a "C-ish" front-end, or a 90's BASIC, ie, no real improvement > on > 'features'. > > "VB.Net" is only a BASIC-esque front-end for .Net Framework Development. > MS > merely coop'd the name "Visual Basic" just as they did for Visual Basic > for > DOS. DotNet is an entirely different ballgame. You will spend your 100+ > hours learning the Framework. > >> What do you think ? > > Forget the actual language. The real question is what development package > do > you want to use? > > Or look at it this way. Migrating to vb.net because you used VB6 is a > terrible reason. But migrating to vb.net because you want to stay with > MS's > development packages is a good reason. (With MS is now dotNet or the > Highway) But in that case why bother with VB.Net and just use VC++ and C# > (unless funny punctuation and case-sensitivity annoys you). > > If you want to avoid MS on Windows then it is C++ or Java - but doing Java > on Windows, with the limited toolset (again IMHO), is just plain making it > tougher on yourself. It is like doing COM on Linix - sure it can be done, > but why? Spend your days playing with tools that are "as good as ...". > Hell > who wants to be *just* as good as? <g> > > And now here is where I really get flamed... <g> > > Frankly, if you want to avoid MS, then avoid Windows. It's their world and > they call all the shots - get used to it or leave. Whine, wimper, b*tch or > cry - at the end of the day - no one cares, especially not MS. > > -ralph > > > > >
From: Ralph on 15 Feb 2010 19:01
"Bob O`Bob" <filterbob(a)yahoogroups.com> wrote in message news:%23RkYyvnrKHA.3908(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Ralph wrote: > > > > > Surprisingly. Delphi most resembles the 'Visual Basic Windows Development" > > (vb5/6) product in terms of the IDE, ease of coding, and RAD. > > > > But that is a whole new language. > > > Or a whole /old/ language. > > > Personally, I learned to hate Pascal-the-language by the early 1980s. > Even though it's "newer" than Basic, and came from similar roots, > the verbosity of Basic remains far more approachable, and stays > much more human-readable after one has forgotten one's own code. > Generally agree. I never cared much for Pascal myself. It was designed as a "teaching language" and did well in that role as it enforced better programming through its structured approach. "Structured Programming" was all the rage back then. However, my recommendation is not based on the "language" but that the Delphi development IDE/Tool more closely mimics VB (Visual Basic Windows Development) compared to alternative platforms. One uses a BASIC dialect front-end script to its 'forms/application' engine, the other uses a PASCAL dialect. -ralph |