Indian scientist invents bloom box for electricity production
in [Physics]
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From: J. Clarke on 24 Feb 2010 01:36 On 2/24/2010 1:01 AM, Michael Coburn wrote: > On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:41:19 -0500, J. Clarke wrote: > >> On 2/23/2010 4:41 PM, Michael Coburn wrote: >>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:38:51 -0800, Benj wrote: >>> >>>> On Feb 23, 4:09 am, "Cwatters" >>>> <colin.wattersNOS...(a)TurnersOakNOSPAM.plus.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From what I can tell it's "just" a fuel cell. No doubt people like >>>>> Google are interested so they can run it off biofuel. >>>> >>>> Right. Electricity from food. Burning food for energy has already >>>> begun to work out real well. >>> >>> Typical oil company shill response. There are a lot more biofuel >>> efforts that use non food resources these days. Corn was a disaster >>> and it is the gift that keeps on giving for the oil company shills. >> >> So how much of this biofuel comes from non-cropland resources? That's >> the issue. > > In the case of switchgrass and woodchips and algae there is no use of > "cropland". So where do the switchgrass and wood chips and algae come from? >
From: JohnF on 24 Feb 2010 07:29 In sci.physics Michael Coburn <mikcob(a)verizon.net> wrote: > On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:00:14 -0800, Eric Gisin wrote: > >> Sounds like a solid oxide fuel cell running on methane. > > If this rig dramatically increases the amount of electricity > per unit of natural gas There's just so much chemical potential energy in the bonds of whatever fuel it uses. That's the upper limit of electric energy you'll get out of it. But I don't know what typical efficiencies currently are, or how much they might improve. -- John Forkosh ( mailto: j(a)f.com where j=john and f=forkosh )
From: PD on 24 Feb 2010 12:54 On Feb 23, 6:41 am, JohnF <j...(a)please.see.sig.for.email.com> wrote: > In sci.physics Cwatters <colin.wattersNOS...(a)turnersoaknospam.plus.com> wrote: > > > > >>>>http://www.wtsp.com/news/mostpop/story.aspx?storyid=125809&provider=top > > >>>>http://www.wtsp.com/news/mostpop/story.aspx?storyid=125809&provider=top > > > From what I can tell it's "just" a fuel cell. No doubt people like Google > > are interested so they can run it off biofuel. > > Yeah, the 60 Minutes segment made it clear that's exactly what it is. > No "magic" claimed. But, like I said in earlier post, the guy hawking > it was too much showman, which made his story that much harder to swallow.. > For example, Diane Sawyer mentioned various fuels and asked if > the cell could run off them. He answered "yes" to everything she > mentioned. Amazing enough. Then she also naively asked, "Can it > run off solar?". I expected to hear an explanation about how that > question's "not even wrong", but he just said "yes" again. > That was a bit troubling to my ear. > I dismissed most of that misdirection as keeping the technology > proprietary, maybe until all patents are airtight. But it was also > discussed that this device was first developed for NASA as an oxygen > generator for Mars missions. The fuel cell just reverse cycles > that same device. But if NASA funded the original development, > how can the device be privately patented? > There do seem to be lots of unanswered questions surrounding > this device, at least unanswered modulo what I saw, but the underlying > technology seems plausible, if as yet too undisclosed for enough > comfort. > -- > John Forkosh ( mailto: j...(a)f.com where j=john and f=forkosh ) Completely my sentiments. It is clearly not just a scam, because there are working pilots, though they don't seem to be revolutionary in their cost savings. But it is awfully close to the chest.
From: Arindam Banerjee on 24 Feb 2010 17:11 Terrific, will work better when they use hydrogen piped from the Hydrogen Transmission Network. Cheers, Arindam Banerjee http://adda-enterprises.com/htnwebsite/home.htm
From: habshi on 24 Feb 2010 20:25
http://www.dailytech.com/Bloom+Energy+Unveils+Energy+Servers+Looks+to+Revolutionize+Power+Industry/article17770.htm The units (of any size) pay back their cost within 3 to 5 years and they will operate efficiently for 10 years (at which point they would presumably be serviced with new catalyst material, i.e. new fuel cell discs). Bloom Energy claims that it will be an unstoppable force in the alternative energy business and its got huge corporate support The future of energy is now, says Bloom Energy. At a press conference today, it unveiled its surprisingly small fuel cell "solutions" boxes. The so-called "Bloom Energy Servers" � which are about as tall as an adult male � can use virtually any hydrocarbon fuel (methane, propane, ethanol, gasoline, liquified coal) and produce energy twice as efficiently as a coal plant. Bloom Energy is trying to revolutionize the power generation industry � the key is cutting out the middle-man (power transmission) and embracing a modular design akin to servers, the backbone of the internet. The company's fuel cell boxes are composed of ceramic (sand derived) discs and special ink. It garnered attention earlier this week when it was featured on the CBS news program 60 Minutes. While many alternative energy startups have struggled to find financial backers, it already has publicized major support from some of the tech industry's biggest names -- Google, eBay, Fedex, Staples, and Walmart. Today, the company held a special event to share the important details of its long secretive energy technology with the public. At the event it announced that its fuel cell generators emit 60 percent less carbon per unit energy than a traditional coal power plant. And unlike a coal power plant, the power is produced on site so there are no grid losses. The whole process can be carbon neutral if the hydrocarbon source is an organic such as algae or switchgrass ethanol (as opposed to fossil fuels). K. R. Sridhar, the ex-NASA researcher who founded the company says that he initially developed the technology to power Mars colonies, but in the end it proved too compelling not to offer on Earth. He states, "After spending a decade of working on this, I had to look back at our first home. While I was dreaming about Mars and our colonies, historically unprecedented things had happened on Earth. For me, it was really a composite image of... a bright world and a dark world. It was the image of the world of haves and the world of have nots. Those who had the opportunity for economy growth and those who were denied that." He said the company was founded to provide the two billion people worldwide without access to affordable power a new, affordable energy source. The result he obtained was a fuel cell that went from "powder to power" and was "twice" as efficient as traditional power plants due to the on-site scheme eliminating grid losses. In his designs, a single fuel cell disc produces 25 W; a "stack" composed of multiple cells produces 1 kW; a "module" produces 25 kW; and a corporate-ready "system" produces 100 kW. A corporate "solution" (consisting of several Bloom Energy Servers or "systems") supplies up to 1 MW of power. The power is continuous and flexible, unlike solar or wind energy. As Mr. Sridhar describes, "This is not when the sun shines, this is not when the wind blows... that's how this little piece of sand is different than what's been done before."" The real flesh of Bloom Energy's plan, though, is its planned consumer debut which will be carried out over the next few years. Bloom aims at providing consumers with $3,000 units that will produce enough power to support the average home at minimal fuel cost. It plans to push the power generation industry towards the same model that made the internet so fabulously successful -- server-based scaling. In fact, it refers to its products as energy "servers" -- entirely flexible, modular power units. |