Indian scientist invents bloom box for electricity production
in [Physics]
|
From: habshi on 22 Feb 2010 16:42 video http://www.wtsp.com/news/mostpop/story.aspx?storyid=125809&provider=top http://www.wtsp.com/news/mostpop/story.aspx?storyid=125809&provider=top One reason the companies have signed up is that in California 20 percent of the cost is subsidized by the state, and there's a 30 percent federal tax break because it's a "green" technology. In other words: the price is cut in half. "We have FedEx, we have Walmart," Sridhar explained. He told Stahl the first customer was Google. Four units have been powering a Google datacenter for 18 months. They use natural gas, but half as much as would be required for a traditional power plant. Sridhar told Stahl that three weeks in at Google, suddenly one of the boxes just stopped. Asked if he panicked, he told Stahl, "For a short while... yes." He fixed that; then there was another incident. "The air filters clog up and air is not coming into the system because the highway is kicking dirt. You just flip the system around, and the problem is gone," he explained. Another company that has bought and is testing the Bloom box so Sridhar can work out the kinks is eBay. Its boxes are on the lawn in the middle of its campus in San Jose. John Donahoe, eBay's CEO, says its five boxes were installed nine months ago and have already saved the company more than $100,000 in electricity costs. But not everyone is convinced that even if the technology works, Bloom - that now makes one box a day - will ever be able to be as big as its backers say. "Going from a few to mass-manufacturing's going to be tough. And then making them so people won't run away at the price tag. It needs to be cheaper than solar. It needs to be cheaper than wind," GreenTech Media's Michael Kanellos told Stahl. "What if he can get the price way down? He claims he can," she asked. "And if he can, the problem is then G.E. and Siemens and other conglomerates probably can do the same thing. They have fuel cell patents; they have research teams that have looked at this," Kanellos replied. "What do you think the chances are that in ten-plus years you and I will each have a Bloom box in our basements?" Stahl asked. "Twenty percent," Kanellos replied. "But it's going to say 'G.E.'"
From: jimp on 22 Feb 2010 17:03 In sci.physics habshi(a)anony.net wrote: > video > http://www.wtsp.com/news/mostpop/story.aspx?storyid=125809&provider=top > > http://www.wtsp.com/news/mostpop/story.aspx?storyid=125809&provider=top > > One reason the companies have signed up is that in California 20 > percent of the cost is subsidized by the state, and there's a 30 > percent federal tax break because it's a "green" technology. In other > words: the price is cut in half. In other words: Half the price shows up in your tax bill. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply.
From: nuny on 22 Feb 2010 17:31 On Feb 22, 2:03 pm, j...(a)specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > In sci.physics hab...(a)anony.net wrote: > > video > >http://www.wtsp.com/news/mostpop/story.aspx?storyid=125809&provider=top > > >http://www.wtsp.com/news/mostpop/story.aspx?storyid=125809&provider=top > > > One reason the companies have signed up is that in California 20 > > percent of the cost is subsidized by the state, and there's a 30 > > percent federal tax break because it's a "green" technology. In other > > words: the price is cut in half. > > In other words: Half the price shows up in your tax bill. More precisely, half of *their* cost shows up in *other peoples'* tax bills. Mark L. Fergerson
From: JohnF on 22 Feb 2010 18:24 In sci.physics jimp(a)specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > In sci.physics habshi(a)anony.net wrote: >> video >> http://www.wtsp.com/news/mostpop/story.aspx?storyid=125809&provider=top >> >> http://www.wtsp.com/news/mostpop/story.aspx?storyid=125809&provider=top >> >> One reason the companies have signed up is that in California 20 >> percent of the cost is subsidized by the state, and there's a 30 >> percent federal tax break because it's a "green" technology. In other >> words: the price is cut in half. > > In other words: Half the price shows up in your tax bill. So what? All the price for fusion test reactors like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER shows up in taxes. If it eventually leads to new energy technology, it's well worth the price. This looks like a similar situation. I saw that same 60 Minutes segment Sunday evening. At the very beginning it looked like one big scam to me, but by the end of the segment I felt it was legitimate. Maybe not ultimately useful on commercial scales, but worth pursuing further. These early adopters are taking risks that could eventually benefit all of us. Subsidizing their risks with a few tax breaks seems to me like one of the much better investments government has made. So complaining about these subsidies is just completely and utterly wrong. In this case, at least, it looks like a legitimate technology well worth some public investment. Of course, any area where there's government money is bound to attract fraud. I'm not suggesting throwing money at any idiot with some dog-and-pony energy show. But in this case, although the guy did strike me as a bit too much of a showman, he eventually seemed legitimate. So let's go ahead and throw the early adopters a few tax breaks. -- John Forkosh ( mailto: j(a)f.com where j=john and f=forkosh )
From: habshi on 22 Feb 2010 18:36
OK so it turns natural gas into electricity, you still have to store the gas . http://green.venturebeat.com/2010/02/22/bloom-energy-is-its-power-plant-in-a-box-worth-all-the-hype/ Capable of powering more than 100 homes while producing close to zero emissions, just one of these boxes could radically alter how people get their energy. But is it the godsend that some are saying it is? Wireless and neatly compartmentalized, the Bloom Box could one day be a fixture in your backyard or basement, transmitting clean energy to your home as needed, Bloom CEO K.R. Sridhar says. Right now, it�s available on a large scale, with each box costing as much as $800,000. In the next five to 10 years, Bloom says it will release smaller boxes for individual households costing less than $3,000. If this happens, there is a chance that Bloom Boxes could supplant utilities and long-distance transmission lines � not to mention capital intensive wind farms and solar arrays. Bloom investor John Doerr of Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, who played a big role in last night�s 60 Minutes debut, says it is definitely Bloom Energy�s goal to disrupt, and even replace the country�s electrical grid. This is a bold assertion, considering how much time, effort and money is being sunk into the creation of the so-called Smart Grid. Incidentally, Bloom Energy was Kleiner Perkins� first investment in the green sector, which has now become a huge area of focus for the firm. Since then, former Secretary of State Colin Powell has also joined the board of directors. If this doesn�t inspire confidence in Bloom�s lofty claims, its roster of current customers probably will. Google was actually the first to install Bloom Boxes on its campus 18 months ago, followed soon after by eBay, FedEx, Wal-Mart and 16 other big names. EBay CEO John Donahoe gave the Box a strong endorsement last night, reporting that the several fuel cells it installed nine months ago have already saved the company $100,000 in energy costs � and are putting out five times more energy than its extensive rooftop solar system. Last night also marked the first glimpse anyone has gotten at Bloom�s actual technology. Each Bloom Box is filled with stacks of razor-thin discs made out of baked beach sand and coated with green and black proprietary inks (this component remains secretive). When the Box is infused with a source of fuel, whether it be natural gas, biomass-produced gas or even solar energy, each of these discs puts out enough electricity to power a light bulb. Together, they can light up whole city blocks. The design was adapted from a similar product that Sridhar worked on at NASA. As Greentech Media editor-in-chief Michael Kanellos pointed out during last night�s segment, previous attempts at similar fuel cells have been prohibitively expensive � especially when it comes to scaling the technology. But Bloom�s Sridhar says it has dramatically reduced the costs associated with building fuel cells. Not only does it use a cheaper metal alloy between each of its discs instead of the typical platinum, but it has replaced the expensive, pure hydrogen gas that used to be required, with more plentiful gas-based fuels. The bigger problem might be that the company only has the capacity to build about one box per day after raising upwards of $400 million. After letting Sridhar sing his Box�s praises at the beginning of the segment, 60 Minutes correspondent Lesley Stahl turned to potential problems and challenges. Notably, if the Bloom Box becomes available (and affordable) for average consumers, won�t threatened utilities start to push back? Sridhar and Doerr have foreseen this problem and reasonably argue that utilities could become major Bloom Box buyers themselves, selling the power the Boxes produce to their residential and commercial customers. After all, utilities already buy wind farms and nuclear reactors to do the same. Stahl also called attention to some of the technical difficulties existing Bloom customers have encountered. For instance, early on, one of Google�s Bloom Boxes used to power a data center abruptly shut down. Sridhar admits that not every Box has performed perfectly and acknowledges that several Boxes have had problems with air filter clogs. But he maintains that the technology is still being refined, and that the early adopters are playing an important role in providing feedback and making the product more commercially viable. |