Jihad needs scientists
in [Design]
|
From: MooseFET on 21 Mar 2007 21:29 On Mar 20, 8:03 pm, "nonse...(a)unsettled.com" <nonse...(a)unsettled.com> wrote: > MooseFET wrote: > > I assume you've had a few. > > Nice. > > Your participation began a significant decline > > when you wrote: > > >The equation for pressure I gave above is not accurate. > > You're on your own. What a cute job of cutting the context you did there. Just reading what you posted someone may get the false impression that you are right so I copied the post you were resonding to below. Those with some knowledge of physics will have recognized the well known aproximation for pressure vs temperature that I posted. A quick bit of figuring would have shown that it is best not to it at -86C. In the band it is intended for, it works well enough. **** Begin copy **** n Mar 20, 2:52 am, "nonse...(a)unsettled.com" <nonse...(a)unsettled.com> wrote: > MooseFET wrote: [... in a kitchen ....] - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > >>>You can get under 50Tor with water as the working material. A steam > >>>filled container placed in the freezer would get down to quite low > >>>pressures: > >>> P = ( (T-Tmelt)/(Tboil-Tmelt) )^4 > >>True, but.... > > Actually not really true in a freezer. Pressures less than zero > > rarely happen. > If we're into corrections then start with your misspelling > of Torr. I assumed you were willing to go lower than the > "normal" 0 Fahrenheit. Rather ordinary lab freezers go to > -86C while cooling using expansion of nitrogen gets much > lower. You're going to haw to redefine freezer to get > to the 50 Torr you proposed. The equation for pressure I gave above is not accurate. It fails badly when you go down near zero C. I think you need to recheck your figures on the temperature needed. > >>To get a vacuum you have to have containment. > > No, you only really need to keep stuff out not in. A stopper can be > > held in by the vacuume. > Vacuum. > The operative word is can. Through a longer thermal > cycle from ambient to some low temperature most stoppers > will leak. Not from 212 to 0C they don't seem to.
From: nonsense on 22 Mar 2007 00:04 MooseFET wrote: > On Mar 20, 8:03 pm, "nonse...(a)unsettled.com" <nonse...(a)unsettled.com> > wrote: > >>MooseFET wrote: >> >>>I assume you've had a few. >> >>Nice. >> >>Your participation began a significant decline >> >>when you wrote: >> >> >The equation for pressure I gave above is not accurate. >> >>You're on your own. > > > What a cute job of cutting the context you did there. Just reading > what you posted someone may get the false impression that you are > right so I copied the post you were resonding to below. > > Those with some knowledge of physics will have recognized the well > known aproximation for pressure vs temperature that I posted. Superficial. > A quick > bit of figuring would have shown that it is best not to it at -86C. > In the band it is intended for, it works well enough. You're getting even further afield because you've failed to understand all the facets of this "experiment" as you yourself have proposed it. google "vapor pressure" ice 378,000 hits Is this where I suggest you might have had a few? Nope, that's not my style. > **** Begin copy **** > n Mar 20, 2:52 am, "nonse...(a)unsettled.com" <nonse...(a)unsettled.com> > wrote: > >>MooseFET wrote: > > > [... in a kitchen ....] > > - Hide quoted text - > - Show quoted text - > >>>>>You can get under 50Tor with water as the working material. A steam >>>>>filled container placed in the freezer would get down to quite low >>>>>pressures: > > >>>>> P = ( (T-Tmelt)/(Tboil-Tmelt) )^4 > > >>>>True, but.... > > >>>Actually not really true in a freezer. Pressures less than zero >>>rarely happen. > > >>If we're into corrections then start with your misspelling >>of Torr. I assumed you were willing to go lower than the >>"normal" 0 Fahrenheit. Rather ordinary lab freezers go to >>-86C while cooling using expansion of nitrogen gets much >>lower. You're going to haw to redefine freezer to get >>to the 50 Torr you proposed. > > > The equation for pressure I gave above is not accurate. It fails > badly when you go down near zero C. > > I think you need to recheck your figures on the temperature needed. > > >>>>To get a vacuum you have to have containment. >>> >>>No, you only really need to keep stuff out not in. A stopper can be >>>held in by the vacuume. > > >>Vacuum. > > >>The operative word is can. Through a longer thermal >>cycle from ambient to some low temperature most stoppers >>will leak. > > > Not from 212 to 0C they don't seem to. > > > >
From: jmfbahciv on 22 Mar 2007 06:53 In article <MPG.206b10e6a581f2b698a1e4(a)news.individual.net>, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzz> wrote: >In article <etr331$8ss_001(a)s997.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>, >jmfbahciv(a)aol.com says... >> In article <MPG.2069abdf39337b7f98a1a5(a)news.individual.net>, >> krw <krw(a)att.bizzzz> wrote: >> >In article <etohvn$8ss_003(a)s920.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>, >> >jmfbahciv(a)aol.com says... >> >> In article <MPG.20686614150361ab98a183(a)news.individual.net>, >> >> krw <krw(a)att.bizzzz> wrote: >> >> <snip> >> >> >> >P.S. I don't advise playing with gunpowder in the kitchen. ;-) >> >> >> >> Oh, I don't intend to do this one. I just got curious and couldn't >> >> figure out how. What's wrong with gunpowder in the kitchen? >> > >> >Fire and explosions are frowned upon in my house. Gunpowder must >> >remain in the bullets. >> >> What if one of your guns is a powder musket? > >One isn't. ;-) > >> >> What table do you think my Dad used when he worked on his guns? >> > >> >My bet is that he didn't fire them in the house. Much noise, stink, >> >and things get broken. >> >> He fired through the window. (He opened it before he fired.) > >I bet that woke up the cat. Ah, actually, it killed the cat, among other critters. For the PITA people, this was before you all became born and pests were killed before they could breed more pests. > SWMBO doesn't even like my guns loaded >in the house. She doesn't even like me threatening the squirrels. You threaten them?!!! When you see their leaf nest quivering, it is because they're laughing their nuts off. We use to eat them for supper. >"No one would even hear a .22short." I remember one time Dad taking a gun he called his elephant gun and shooting a big loose branch down from a very tall tree. The bullets were 4-5 inches long---but I was little back then when "big" could very well have been smaller than my memories. That one had a very big bang. /BAH
From: jmfbahciv on 22 Mar 2007 06:54 In article <54b9f$46016a49$49ecfdb$3436(a)DIALUPUSA.NET>, "nonsense(a)unsettled.com" <nonsense(a)unsettled.com> wrote: >jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: >> In article <MPG.2069abdf39337b7f98a1a5(a)news.individual.net>, >> krw <krw(a)att.bizzzz> wrote: >> >>>In article <etohvn$8ss_003(a)s920.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>, >>>jmfbahciv(a)aol.com says... >>> >>>>In article <MPG.20686614150361ab98a183(a)news.individual.net>, >>>> krw <krw(a)att.bizzzz> wrote: >> >> >> <snip> >> >>>>>P.S. I don't advise playing with gunpowder in the kitchen. ;-) >>>> >>>>Oh, I don't intend to do this one. I just got curious and couldn't >>>>figure out how. What's wrong with gunpowder in the kitchen? >>> >>>Fire and explosions are frowned upon in my house. Gunpowder must >>>remain in the bullets. >> >> >> What if one of your guns is a powder musket? >> >> >>>>What table do you think my Dad used when he worked on his guns? >>> >>>My bet is that he didn't fire them in the house. Much noise, stink, >>>and things get broken. >> >> >> He fired through the window. (He opened it before he fired.) > >I expect to do the same next fall. What's going to be dinner? /BAH
From: jmfbahciv on 22 Mar 2007 08:07
In article <1ae0f$45f817db$4fe71d4$28690(a)DIALUPUSA.NET>, "nonsense(a)unsettled.com" <nonsense(a)unsettled.com> wrote: >jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: > >> In article <5a788$45f7cdfe$4fe707e$27037(a)DIALUPUSA.NET>, >> "nonsense(a)unsettled.com" <nonsense(a)unsettled.com> wrote: >> >>>jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: >>> >>>>In article <et7ljd$bq1$5(a)blue.rahul.net>, >>>> kensmith(a)green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>In article <b33aa$45f6d225$4fe7292$20427(a)DIALUPUSA.NET>, >>>>>nonsense(a)unsettled.com <nonsense(a)unsettled.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Ken Smith wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>In article <et5v7k$8qk_001(a)s887.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>, >>>>>>><jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote: >>>>>>>[....] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Did you write a TAPE.DIR onto the tape after the tape had already been >>>>>>>>>written? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>No. One of my requirements was that the file be the first in >>>>>>>>the saveset. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>In other words, you created it based on what you intended to write to the >>>>>>>tape not what you actually wrote. This contradicts what you said >> >> earlier. >> >>>>>>>It doesn't matter because the suggested method still works. The checksum >>>>>>>could still have been correct. >>>>>> >>>>>>The operative word is "could." It can never be "what was read from >>>>>>the tape." Your entire argument on this matter has been silly. It >>>>>>is an elementary problem in recursion. >>>>> >>>>>Yes, it can be what was read from the tape. I explained elsewhere exactly >>>>>how you can make the first file on the tape be based on the contents of >>>>>the tape after it has been written. Tape drives can write to the start of >>>>>a tape without trashing the rest of the contents of the tape. >>>> >>>> >>>>It will trash the rest of the tape. We shipped the files within >>>>savesets. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>The >>>>>operation is refered to as an "edit" write. It only requires that the >>>>>tape already contain a block of the same size. It has been done for >>>>>years. >>>> >>>> >>>>But your edit write would not include the directory of the tape >>>>after you wrote it. >>>> >>>> >>>>>There is no problem in recursion. There is no problem in making the >>>>>checksum correct. You seem to have missed the post where I filled you in >>>>>on how exactly the checksum of a file can be stored in the text of file >>>>>and be valid. Here is a hint: >>>>> >>>>>checksum("0000ZZZZ") == checksum("1111YYYY") >>>>> >>>>>You should be able to take it from there. When you figure it out try to >>>>>get BAH to understand. >>>> >>>> >>>>/BAH understands your method just fine. First of all the editing >>>>method would have trashed the first saveset. Second of all, >>>>the file would not have been a directory of the tape after you >>>>wrote the file to the tape. >>> >>>I almost hate to say this, but I think that understanding >>>the problem is beyond him. >> >> >> Definitely. I'm studying the phenomena. I have encountered this >> before but it was rare in my area. I don't think one can do >> comm and OS development without being able to breathe recursion >> and live to tell about it :-). >> >> I'm beginning to wonder if this lack is a common trait. >> Consider the original thread subject matter. Weren't a lot >> of the problems due to not being able to think recursively? > >Looks like you found a new word. :-) Yep. I only knew it as it was used in my biz. > >The answers we've seen over the months seem to me in >retrospect to have been rather linear with a lot of >semi-concealed "they're just like us" worldview. With >that premise being wrong, all that follows is as well. hmmm...I don't think that is the key but it is an important ingredient. > >Dammit, we don't even appreciate the difference between >the Russian mind (semi-oriental) and ours. The US and the >CIA have, for many decades, been accused of all sorts of >underhanded stuff. Still, no one has tied together >anything like the recent anti-leader dieoffs we can >clearly see happening. Factually we consider the Russians >"just like us" and clearly they're not. I've done some reading to try to figure out their mindset because part of the Middle East mess invoved that mindset. I'm currently reading a book about a kibbutz; I was floored because I did not know that USSR was used as a model and admired very much in the beginnings of the social experiment. I had not figured out the ramifications of USSR "supporting" Israel in the beginning. >The middle eastern >mindset is still another sort of critter yet. So far it seems like there is a mish-mash of cultures there. Nazism is still an influence, too. > >I've personally known some Russians, and they were very >nice. But where power, money, and their natural habitat >are concerned, things are rather different. In my small observances, it was an honorable thing to do cheating. I'm not going to explain this one very well. I suspect this kind of behaviour is a result of totalitarianism. > >It didn't seem to take a whole lot to herd the Jim Jones >bunch into a situation where ~1000 murder/suicides were >the end of the journey and achieved in the matter of a >few hours at most. One is amused at the thought that it >was socialist/communist/liberal thinking that led to that >debacle, as sad as the outcome was. It is expected. It seems that most socialist flavored enterprises seem to devolve into leaving the decisions, thus all power, to one or a few people. Over time, the only ones willing to do that work are the ones who have enough emotional disturbance to believe themselves about godhood. > >I don't see societal power and control as linear functions. >I do see them as recursive, yes, with significant potential >for runaway positive feedback (for the electronics design >bunch to chew on.) I think this is what happens. Whenever there is a conundrum (and this includes a societal crisis), people who have this kind of thinking latch on to the most minor detail that is false. Then their coping ability will insist that the detail be proved true before accepting the reality of the danger the crisis has created. So far, the only way to unlatch the notion is to give a direct order and ignore the complaints and protests, etc. I sure hope you understand what I wrote the way I meant to write it because days of thinking hasn't produced a better set of English ASCII. :-) One method to avoid this latching is to figure the datum that will cause the concrete mindsetting and then never mention it. However, this may be as futile as expecting all kitchen dishes to remain clean for 24 hours. /BAH |