KDE 4 lacks:
in [Suse]
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From: paul0073 on 14 Jan 2010 12:18 In article <4b4ece59$0$22937$e4fe514c(a)news.xs4all.nl>, reply_only_to(a)newsgroup.nl says... > > On 14/01/10 03:30, Paul J Gans wrote: > > Chris Cox <chrisncoxn(a)endlessnow.com> wrote: > > > >> On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 17:53 +0000, Paul J Gans wrote: > >> ...snip... > >> > >> <snip...> <snip...> > >> KDE1,2,3 was more evolutionary. KDE4 is more of a revolution. > >> > > Good post. I take your point about KDE4 being a different > > desktop environment than KDE3. > > > > I will probably spend some serious time looking at other > > desktop environments as well as KDE4. I may be able to > > free up a machine to use as a test bed. > > > > Thanks again. You clarified my thinking for me. > > > > > <snipped> because of lengthy post, but I do agree on your opinion about > the post. Good one. > > After years of using KDE (as of Suse version <low>, some ten years or > so), I saw KDE4 coming up in Suse-11.2 and thought : 'Well , in Linux > all changes appear to be improvements' so I gave KDE4 a shot. > > They proved my thought wrong, which is a major achievement :P . > > KDE4 was on my system for a day or two. I couldn't find the simplest of > things without referring back to newsgroups etc.etc. So I did just like > a 'major linux designer' that was on the cradle of linux did (whose name > I shall not mention for privacy's sake...). > > Gnome was up and running to full satisfaction within 2-4 hours. And > those were mainly spent on tweeking my desktop the way I like it (I'm a > keyboard fan). Have used Gnome now for a month or two. Even eliminated > all rpm's that smelled like kde. > > No regrets on going Gnome here. There's just one disappointment: not all > changes are improvements in Linux :-) I'm using kde4 & just decided that it is another viewpoint of the developers & no big deal; then, I'm not doing anything productive with it. When winxp came out the desktop was much different & cluttered than the "classic" look; at least there was the ability to use the classic look & be aware that any desktop config was changed, the xp desktop returned by "magic". Then if one went from winxp to win7, the desktop look even more different/perverse. m$$ decided that the user should not be able to view the entire contents of a folder even if everything wasn't "hidden". One needed to dropdown the menu & select the view everything mode, for that time only as it reverts back to the original. Now if one is supposed to be logged on as a user with admin rights, well, FAKE ADIM rights, one cannot do everything that a REAL ADMIN can do. One had to change the folder's hidden attribute to for access as a REAL ADMIN. The admin had a kind of su without all the su rights which make it meanless. A partial solution was to create a desktop icon for the command prompt that had REAL admin rights..sheshhh. Back to kde4, my problem is that something happened to the sound which does sound on bootup & shutdown, but no sound from apps. & since I had to redo my harddrives because win7 crashed very badly, I reloaded winxp & opensuse. This time instead of my usual choice of runlevel 3, I decided to go for runlevel 5 & the surprising thing is the the desktop looked very different than when I used startx! Oh well, another desktop change when the os is the same as well as the X; only difference is the load/install!!!.
From: Shmuel Metz on 14 Jan 2010 08:35 In <1263417782.307.235.camel(a)geeko>, on 01/13/2010 at 03:23 PM, Chris Cox <chrisncoxn(a)endlessnow.com> said: >So... KDE3 is dead (unless somebody gets motivated). KDE4, is a new >non-Gnome, Desktop enviroment that has the potential to replace it for >many (for many, that's already done). The Devil is in the details. KDE4 has been presented as an upgrade, but it lacks that which should characterize an upgrade. 1. Documentation of changes, including equivalents of KDE3 facilities when they exist. 2. Tools to migrate application data semi-automatically. >Should you be upset? Yes. At who? The developers. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamtrap(a)library.lspace.org
From: Eef Hartman on 15 Jan 2010 10:27 Kevin Nathan <knathan(a)project54.com> wrote: > I'm not sure. It's possible, I suppose, but ISTR there being a > significant paradigm shift from 1 to 2. Yes, there was. We had to throw away all user kde profile's and let them be rebuilt by KDE 2.0 when we upgraded. Luckily I myself wasn't yet using KDE, so I didn't have any problems, but as system manager it was a real pita. -- ******************************************************************* ** Eef Hartman, Delft University of Technology, dept. SSC/ICT ** ** e-mail: E.J.M.Hartman(a)tudelft.nl - phone: +31-15-278 82525 ** *******************************************************************
From: Paul J Gans on 15 Jan 2010 12:19 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap(a)library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote: >In <1263417782.307.235.camel(a)geeko>, on 01/13/2010 > at 03:23 PM, Chris Cox <chrisncoxn(a)endlessnow.com> said: >>So... KDE3 is dead (unless somebody gets motivated). KDE4, is a new >>non-Gnome, Desktop enviroment that has the potential to replace it for >>many (for many, that's already done). >The Devil is in the details. KDE4 has been presented as an upgrade, but it >lacks that which should characterize an upgrade. > 1. Documentation of changes, including equivalents of KDE3 facilities > when they exist. > 2. Tools to migrate application data semi-automatically. >>Should you be upset? Yes. At who? >The developers. Documentation would help a lot. The productivity killer lies in the time needed to hunt down a way to change a setting. -- --- Paul J. Gans
From: Paul J Gans on 15 Jan 2010 12:24
Eef Hartman <E.J.M.Hartman(a)tudelft.nl> wrote: >Kevin Nathan <knathan(a)project54.com> wrote: >> I'm not sure. It's possible, I suppose, but ISTR there being a >> significant paradigm shift from 1 to 2. >Yes, there was. We had to throw away all user kde profile's and let >them be rebuilt by KDE 2.0 when we upgraded. >Luckily I myself wasn't yet using KDE, so I didn't have any problems, >but as system manager it was a real pita. I think that one of the reasons behind the attempt to standardize the Linux file system was to help minimize the learning curve when one changed versions of the kernel. Of course developers dislike having to write documentation. *I* dislike having to write documentation. But Linux is no longer a toy OS (and hasn't been for years) and we need a more organized approach to changes in standard systems. -- --- Paul J. Gans |