LS9/16 - not the desk for me
in [Live Sound]
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From: George's Pro Sound Company on 19 Nov 2008 12:54 "liquidator" <mikeh(a)mad.scientist.com> wrote in message news:gg1j0k$o9u$1(a)aioe.org... > > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:4924434D.E3F32443(a)hotmail.com... >> >> >> Arny Krueger wrote: >> >> > "Eeyore" wrote in >> > > Arny Krueger wrote: >> > >> "Sean Conolly" <sjconolly_98(a)yaaho.com> wrote >> > >>> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk(a)hotpop.com> wrote >> > >> >> > >>>> Implicit in the OP is the fact that the OP has >> > >>>> apparently never used this particular desk before in >> > >>>> his life, and his major experience with digital desks >> > >>>> has been with an installed system, running the same >> > >>>> shows over and over again, using a large format >> > >>>> digital desk. >> > >> >> > >>>> With large format digital desks, you generally aren't >> > >>>> doing that much with layers and menus, which is one >> > >>>> reason why they are physically huge. >> > >> > >>> ... and that Phil was expecting a different desk when he >> > >>> showed up. Had he known in advance what he would be >> > >>> using I'm sure he would have spent more time in the >> > >>> manual to figure out what he needed, and probably would >> > >>> have had an easier time. >> > >> > >> IME, it takes a lot more than just reading a manual to >> > >> get a person up to speed and comfort with digital >> > >> consoles that have layers. >> > >> > > I'll bet ! I foresee no trouble whatever continuing to >> > > sell analogue desks for decades. >> > hell you can still buy steel hoops for your wood spoked wagon wheels as long as SOMEONE will pay for it, someone else will sell it George
From: Eeyore on 19 Nov 2008 16:02 Arny Krueger wrote: > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote > > Arny Krueger wrote: > >> "Eeyore" wrote in > >>> Arny Krueger wrote: > > >>>> IME, it takes a lot more than just reading a manual to > >>>> get a person up to speed and comfort with digital > >>>> consoles that have layers. > >> > >>> I'll bet ! I foresee no trouble whatever continuing to > >>> sell analogue desks for decades. > >> > >> Interesting question - will analog consoles hold on like > >> analog prerecorded media has. They've held on for 30 > >> years or so. > > > The knob per function and low cost of consoles with > > lowish numbers of channels especially assures their > > continuation IMHO. > > At some point the cost of ADCs, DACs, touch screen LCDs and DSPs will be so > low that even consoles like the small Behrs will be digital from ADC to > DAC. Then follow the trend to power amps with digital inputs and mic > cabling systems with digital I/O, and the console is digital from input to > output, and also includes speaker management. ADCs, DACs, LCDs and even touch screens are very mature products now. Don't expect much drop in price there. I was using touch screen LCDs 17 years ago. I have a couple 'kicking around' still. > Two connectors on the console of the future: > > (1) power > > (2) computer network But that's NOT what lots of people WANT. Plus you need your own chip designers and suitable chip foundry to do it, which is why Yamaha are so far ahead in the game (at sensible costs at least). > > Take a look at this .... > > http://www.cadac-sound.com/frameset.asp?P=products/S-Digital.html > > I've looked at those before - obviously designed for the theatre and deep > pockets. > > > They've gone out of their way to make it look and feel > > like an analogue desk. Costy I'll venture though. > > http://installationeurope.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=935&Itemid=1 > > "BUSINESS: The professional audio world has been hit by yet another > depressing development with the news that UK-based mixing console > manufacturer Cadac Electronics has gone into administration. The surprise > announcement - which comes 40 years after the company's first consoles > rolled off the production line - follows what the manufacturer terms "a > sudden and unexpected fall-off in anticipated sales" of its analogue > products, writes David Davies." > > I haven't heard anything more since then. I know but they are still functioning with somone putting some money in so I hear. A certain person even gave me a name but I've forgotten it now. > >> I believe that the growth of the growth of digital > >> consoles has been throttled by some soon-to-expire > >> patents. > > > Anything in mind ? > > The demise of the Behringer DDX 3216. You think it transgressed some patents ? Probably Yamaha's ? Graham
From: Eeyore on 19 Nov 2008 16:05 liquidator wrote: > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote > > Arny Krueger wrote: > > > > > I believe that the growth of the growth of digital consoles has been > > > throttled by some soon-to-expire patents. > > > > Anything in mind ? > > In addition to the patent issues, digital processing power constantly gets > cheaper...it will simply reach a point where digital will be so much cheaper > it will be sheer economics...tried to sell a film camera lately? DSP, yes I'd expect that to get cheaper but not the I/O significantly. > Some perfect condition 35mm that were $300 units down at the thrift store > for ten bucks if ya want them...in ten years analog will be a craft item, > not a work item. I still have my 35mm Pentax. If you want REAL quality without spending LOTS, it's the only way. Snapshots are another story. :-) Graham
From: liquidator on 19 Nov 2008 17:50 "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:49247FA6.DEDCD7EC(a)hotmail.com... > > > liquidator wrote: > > > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote > > > Arny Krueger wrote: > > > > > > > I believe that the growth of the growth of digital consoles has been > > > > throttled by some soon-to-expire patents. > > > > > > Anything in mind ? > > > > In addition to the patent issues, digital processing power constantly gets > > cheaper...it will simply reach a point where digital will be so much cheaper > > it will be sheer economics...tried to sell a film camera lately? > > DSP, yes I'd expect that to get cheaper but not the I/O significantly. > > > > Some perfect condition 35mm that were $300 units down at the thrift store > > for ten bucks if ya want them...in ten years analog will be a craft item, > > not a work item. > > I still have my 35mm Pentax. If you want REAL quality without spending LOTS, > it's the only way. Snapshots are another story. :-) > Horses for courses. I can do better on my Nikon DSLR than most can with any 35. Good tools can make a good workman better- the best tools in the world won't help a poor one. BTW most quality work done these days in photo is digital.
From: liquidator on 19 Nov 2008 17:54
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:49247EE7.5AB93C1(a)hotmail.com... > > > Arny Krueger wrote: > > > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote > > > Arny Krueger wrote: > > >> "Eeyore" wrote in > > >>> Arny Krueger wrote: > > > > >>>> IME, it takes a lot more than just reading a manual to > > >>>> get a person up to speed and comfort with digital > > >>>> consoles that have layers. > > >> > > >>> I'll bet ! I foresee no trouble whatever continuing to > > >>> sell analogue desks for decades. > > >> > > >> Interesting question - will analog consoles hold on like > > >> analog prerecorded media has. They've held on for 30 > > >> years or so. > > > > > The knob per function and low cost of consoles with > > > lowish numbers of channels especially assures their > > > continuation IMHO. > > > > At some point the cost of ADCs, DACs, touch screen LCDs and DSPs will be so > > low that even consoles like the small Behrs will be digital from ADC to > > DAC. Then follow the trend to power amps with digital inputs and mic > > cabling systems with digital I/O, and the console is digital from input to > > output, and also includes speaker management. > > ADCs, DACs, LCDs and even touch screens are very mature products now. Don't expect much > drop in price there. > > I was using touch screen LCDs 17 years ago. I have a couple 'kicking around' still. > > > > Two connectors on the console of the future: > > > > (1) power > > > > (2) computer network > > But that's NOT what lots of people WANT. Plus you need your own chip designers and > suitable chip foundry to do it, which is why Yamaha are so far ahead in the game (at > sensible costs at least). > > > > > Take a look at this .... > > > http://www.cadac-sound.com/frameset.asp?P=products/S-Digital.html > > > > I've looked at those before - obviously designed for the theatre and deep > > pockets. > > > > > They've gone out of their way to make it look and feel > > > like an analogue desk. Costy I'll venture though. > > > > http://installationeurope.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=935& Itemid=1 > > > > "BUSINESS: The professional audio world has been hit by yet another > > depressing development with the news that UK-based mixing console > > manufacturer Cadac Electronics has gone into administration. The surprise > > announcement - which comes 40 years after the company's first consoles > > rolled off the production line - follows what the manufacturer terms "a > > sudden and unexpected fall-off in anticipated sales" of its analogue > > products, writes David Davies." > > > > I haven't heard anything more since then. > > I know but they are still functioning with somone putting some money in so I hear. A > certain person even gave me a name but I've forgotten it now. > > > > >> I believe that the growth of the growth of digital > > >> consoles has been throttled by some soon-to-expire > > >> patents. > > > > > Anything in mind ? > > > > The demise of the Behringer DDX 3216. > > You think it transgressed some patents ? Probably Yamaha's ? > > Graham > > I don't believe the 3216 transgressed any patents...and frankly think little of anyone who asserts so. When leaded solder went away, defect rates on the 3216 skyrocketed. It just wasn't economical any more. They continued to be available for some time in markets where lead free solder wasn't mandated. |