Latin, the Enlightenment, and science
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From: I.N. Galidakis on 26 Dec 2009 03:05 Joachim Pense wrote: [snip] > Greek is versatile in making up new words by composition, and that's what > western scientists did until recently. Here's a graphical example which partially shows this versatility, for those who can follow it: http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/writing/definition.html For general cultural exchange, I'd say it's pretty obvious that the most versatile one is American-English, because its bastardization is phenomenal. At least as witnessed by this author, after spending 10 years there. That, which is bastardized and mutated the most is the one which adapts and survives the longest. It's probably not an accident that the net is predominantly English. > Joachim -- Ioannis
From: Joachim Pense on 26 Dec 2009 03:22 PaulJK (in sci.lang): > Joachim Pense wrote: >> Peter T. Daniels (in alt.usage.english): >>> >>> At least the Indians in sci.lang can write intelligible English. >> >> Like Purl Gurl? >> Joachim > > I am only guessing that Peter meant Indian Indians. You'll get a barnstar for grasping my joke. Joachim
From: Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr. on 26 Dec 2009 05:50 On Dec 25, 7:03 am, jmfbahciv <jmfbahciv(a)aol> wrote: > Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr. wrote: > > > On Dec 24, 8:05 am, chazwin <chazwy...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On Dec 24, 1:57 pm, Andrew Usher <k_over_hb...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > >>> The use of Latin in the sciences and other learned fields basically > >>> ceased in the 18th and 19th centuries. I have long wondered why people > >>> accepted the use of national languages exclusively in this endeavor > >>> where international understanding is more imperative than any other. > >>> It is true, that the use of Latin by 1700 had already passed almost > >>> everywhere else, but its last remaining use should still have been > >>> enough to support it, given that Latin was the one language that every > >>> educated man in the Western world knew, and that Latin, having such a > >>> long tradition of use, was at least suitable for scientific and > >>> technical purposes as any other language at the time. > >>> And so, some explanations suggest themselves. The first is that the > >>> predominant advocates and defenders of Latin, from the Renaissance to > >>> now, are from the humanities; and so once Latin had disappeared from > >>> live literary use, their support was no longer important. The second > >>> is to blame it on the French: they abandoned Latin earlier than anyone > >>> else, and are well-known to have an inflated view of the greatness of > >>> their own language. But that does not seem to explain how it happened > >>> everywhere else: had they wanted to emulate the French, they would > >>> have started writing in French, and if they had wanted to oppose them, > >>> they should have re-emphasised the role of Latin. > >>> Now, of course, I can't propose the revival of Latin for these > >>> purposes: English has virtually replaced it as the international > >>> scientific language. But it look a long time during which dealing with > >>> many different languages was a considerable problem, and it seems as > >>> though this should have been avoided. > >>> Andrew Usher > >> Latin provided an invaluable tool for the transmission of ideas > >> throughout Europe, not bound my the restrictions of parochial > >> languages long before the Enlightenment. This together with the > >> invention of printing was the way that the Reformation exploded right > >> across Europe without the need for learning all the various languages > >> that were still unformed. > >> Latin's use was maintained long into the 18thC. It use continued in > >> Botany and other sciences in the coining of neologisms , and is still > >> in use to this day. > >> The 19thC saw the domination of English > > > In what field? Certainly not in math, science, philosophy, music, art, > > cuisine, etc. > > > French was the overall lingua franca among educated people in the 19th > > century. English dominated relatively minor fields like tea-drinking > > and crumpet-making. > > And it stultified. France elides all words which aren't French to this > day. Thus word creation and new meanings are expunged from the > language. > What is the relevance between what I said and what you wrote?
From: Peter T. Daniels on 26 Dec 2009 08:58 On Dec 25, 11:18 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...(a)theworld.com> wrote: > On Dec 25, 11:11 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > > On Dec 25, 8:01 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...(a)theworld.com> wrote: > > > On Dec 25, 1:54 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > > > > On Dec 25, 11:43 am, Yusuf B Gursey <y...(a)theworld.com> wrote: > > > > > why isn't this cross-posted to a medical or biological NG? Latin based > > > > > coinages are AFAIK more alive in those fields. philosophy tends, AFAIK > > > > > towards german. particle physics is inovative: quark (a fundamental > > > > > particle, IIRC from a type of german cheese, but based on a miss- > > > > > Did Gell-Mann ever claim any connection with Ger. Quark?? > > > > no, he didn't. > > > Then why did you say he did? > > I said the word was from German, not that Gell-Mann claimed the > connection. So now it's your claim that Joyce was writing about three cottage- cheeses for Muster Mark?
From: Peter T. Daniels on 26 Dec 2009 09:01
On Dec 26, 3:05 am, "I.N. Galidakis" <morph...(a)olympus.mons> wrote: > Joachim Pense wrote: > > [snip] > > > Greek is versatile in making up new words by composition, and that's what > > western scientists did until recently. > > Here's a graphical example which partially shows this versatility, for those who > can follow it: By "follow," you mean 'read the Greek language'. And it's not a graphical example, it's a list. > http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/writing/definition.html > > For general cultural exchange, I'd say it's pretty obvious that the most > versatile one is American-English, because its bastardization is phenomenal. At > least as witnessed by this author, after spending 10 years there. > > That, which is bastardized and mutated the most is the one which adapts and > survives the longest. Anyone who refers to the borrowing of words between languages in contact as "bastardization" needs to learn a little linguistics before posting to sci.lang again. (Though you'd be at home in a small corner of alt.usage.english.) > It's probably not an accident that the net is predominantly English. |